Quranic verse which is called Hadi-se-Qudsi

[Guest]

Under <br>Topic: Ph.D Ismaili Convert interviewed by Christian schoolteacher <p>See:- http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum ... p>Question No.40<p>There is a mention of Quranic verse called Hadi-Se-Qudsi, and I quote from it (nizari has also mentioned this on another post):<p>"There is a Quranic verse which is called Hadi-se-Qudsi in which Allah told Muhammad.,<br>"Had it not been for thee, I would not have created the world! And, had it not been for Ali, I would not have created thee."<p>Question for padders of misinformation:<br>(Nizari/Hafeez/asif Khan etc. etc.)<p>WHERE IS THIS VERSE IN QURAN?<p>PLEASE GIVE SURA AND VERSE NUMBER.<p><p><p>

[Guest]

Muslim First,<p>So a new convert got slightly muddled with his terminology but his meaning was clear enough. And I think most true Muslims, who do not look to Bukhari Volume VI for guidance, know that individual verses have not been given names and therefore the guy must have meant that "there is a hadith called..."<p>BTW, Muslim First did you know that Bukhari, whose mother tongue was not Arabic, has referred to many Suras by their first verses rather than by the name the rest of us know them by. For example Sura An Naba (Sura 78) is labelled as Sura "Amma yatasa'alun", this is actually part of the first verse of the sura.. Sura Al Baiyina (Sura 98) is labelled as Sura "Lam Yakun". Again the beginning verses. Sura At Takwir (Sura 81) is labelled Sura "Idhash Shamsu Kuwirat". This is the start of the first verse again. Sura Al Maarij (sura 70) is labelled Sura "Sa'ala<br>Sa'ilun".<p>Surely if Bukhari is allowed the "odd" mistake a new convert can be excused his.<p>Peace to all.

[Guest]

<br>EX <p>Nizari has posted same stuff on different topic and when challanged did not correct and even refuse to give reference.<p>If you read introduction to what I call "Ismali Peshawar Nights" The Ph.D. had opportunity to correct his answers twice (I am sure he saw his handler's i.e Aga Khani clergy.<p>Point here is "if you throw enough sheet at the wall, some of it is bound to stick" or "if you repeat lies enough times it becomes fact".<p><p><p>

[Guest]

To all,<br>Hadith ul'Qudsi are not verses from the Quran. They are hadiths of instruction or beliefs quoting something that the Prophet received from Allah directly. An example is the following:<p><br>On the authority of Abu Dharr al-Ghifari (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (PBUH) is that among the sayings he relates from his Lord (may He be glorified) is that He said: <br>O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another. O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you, O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you. O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and will not attain benefitting Me so as to benefit Me. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more that a needle decreases the sea if put into it. O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him finds good praise Allah and let him who finds other that blame no one but himself. <p><br>

[Guest]

<br>Br. qiyam<p>I know what Hadith ul'Qudsi is.<p>Can you confirm the Hadith Posted by Ph.D. ?<p>Nizari will not.<p>Wasalaam<p>

[Guest]

Muslim First,<p>On the other thread you wrote:<br>==========================================<br>"Ex <br>It seems you are expert in Ahadith<p>Please tell me source of this Hadit-Qudsi<p>"There is a Quranic verse which is called Hadi-se-Qudsi in which Allah told Muhammad.,<br>"Had it not been for thee, I would not have created the world! And, had it not been for Ali, I would not have created thee."<p>Is this hadith correctly queted?"<br>==========================================<p>Thank you for your thought provoking post. I started thinking whether there is any hadith that nearly everyone on these boards has heard of. And the hadith "I was a hidden treasure....." came to mind. As it is Allah's words and not in the Qur'an, it is obviously Hadith ul'Qudsi. Now how many people do you think can quote a reference for it. Hardly anyone. Why? Because we have all heard it; very few have actually read it in a collection of ahadith!<p>Do you know the source of the hadith I have quoted above or don't you believe that it is true?<p>wasalaam

[Guest]

<br>Ex<p>I did not intend to make your head spinning.<p>What I ment "Hadith Qudsi No.so and so."<p>But it is immeterial now. Alla of us had ancester who were "Ismaili Muslim" until they smartend-up. Unfortunately most of will die without Saya of His Highness Prince Karim and end up where we don't want to end up.<p>Oh, well Let us follow something we know with deeper understanding.<p>Please forgive me if troubled your brain too much.<p>By<p>

[Guest]

Muslim First,<p>Thank you for your concern regarding my brain. I think I have recovered sufficiently to pursue the issue a bit further.<p>I did realise when you asked for a reference you meant giving you a book number, hadith number etc. I do not know because I had not quoted it. However as you are so full of knowledge, can you please tell me in which aya Allah (SWT) tells us why He created us? If not He must have told us through Hadith-Ul-Qudsi. So can you tell me the "No.so and so."? If not tell me whether you believe it is authentic. And if there is no such hadith, then is it not surprising that Allah tells us that He created, the heavens, the earth, the mountains etc but never told us why?<p>And please don't state the obvious - "Allah knows best"<p>"Alla of us had ancester who were "Ismaili Muslim" until they smartend-up. Unfortunately most of will die without Saya of His Highness Prince Karim and end up where we don't want to end up."<p>Smartened up so that we end up where we don't want to! I guess I wiil need to learn the latest lingo as that hardly sounds like smartening up in everyday lingo.<p>Please brother don't give up this thread without enlightening us a bit more.<p>Peace

[Guest]

<br>Ex<p>I am here and read your post<p>Happy asnd prosp. Jummah<p>Wasalaam<p>

[Guest]

Muslim First,<p>So has Allah explained why we are all here? I am sure a lotta folks on these boards and back home are waiting for your reply to that.<p>Best of Jummah to all you Muslims!<p>Adha-Muslim Gursevak.<p>

[Guest]

Here is another hadith you should consider Muslim First and Anajmi;<p>In hadith Qudsi (divine saying), it has come down that the trustworthy Gabriel addressed the holy Prophet (S.A.W.A.) as such:<p>'0 Muhammad! Allah sends His greetings upon you and says:! have created the seven skies and whatever is over them and the seven earths and whatever is in them and I have not created any place better than the place of' Rukn" and "Maqam" (position of Abraham). If a slave worships Me in this very place from the time I created the heavens and the earths and then comes to Me denying the Wilayah of Ali, I shall cast him in the Fire.'<br>

[Guest]

<br>Please post Hadith No. So and so, Book and page nuber or address of site you copied from. (Not Aga khani site)<p>I like to varify<p>You have yet to rspond Hadth qudse reference to one quoted by Ph.D.<p>

[Guest]

I dont know the Hadith citation<br>i got it from a website full of hadith quotes, all i know is the name of the Hadith.<br>Hold on and let me find out.

[Guest]

<br>Nizari<p>Does it take too much work to include refernce ot material you post?<p>

[Guest]

<br>Nizari<p>Hadith qudse usually contains Quotes of Allah SWT.<p>I have enough trust in my faith (Mainstream Islam) that Allah SWT will not tell my Prophet SAW to tell his Ummah that they also need Waliyah of somebody else to enter Jannah. I smell Fabrication.<p>Qoute original Aribic transliteration also.<p><p>

[Guest]

Why would Allah leave this world without a manifest leader?<br>Why would he allow the faith to be corrupted?<p>75:36 – “Does man think that he will be left uncontrolled?”

[Guest]

33:45 – “O Prophet! Lo! We have sent thee as a witness and a bringer of good tidings and a warner.”<br>33:46 – “And as a summoner unto Allah by His permission, AND AS A LAMP THAT GIVETH LIGHT.”<p>Do you think Allah will remove this Light from the world and leave us in darkness?<p>16:89 - "One day We shall raise from all Peoples a witness against them, from amongst themselves: AND WE SHALL BRING THEE AS A WITNESS AGAINST THESE(thy people): and We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things, a Guide, a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims."<p>The Prophet's spiritually present in the world. He was present from the beginning and he is with every Imam, acting as a witness for the world.<p>9:103 – “Of their goods, take alms, that so thou mightest purify and sanctify them; and pray on their behalf. Verily thy prayers are a source of security for them: And God is One Who heareth and knoweth.” <p>The Prophet was ordered to pray for his people and that his prayers were a source of security for the believers. After his death, who is going to pray for the Muslims. Who will provide them with security?<br>

[Guest]

17:71 - (Remember) the day when We will call every people with their Imam; then whoever is given his book in his right hand, these shall read their book; and they shall not be dealt with a whit unjustly.<p>17:72 - And whoever is blind in this, he shall (also) be blind in the hereafter; and more erring from the way.<p>The world cannot be without an Imam or every man has a case against Allah. There must exist an Imam in every age and time, he is the only proof of faith people will have on the last day.<p><br>

[Guest]

<br>Nizari<p>Look. I have challanged you to post refernce to the following post by you.<br>************************<p>Nizari posted 05-11-2002 09:44 AM ET (US) <br>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Here is another hadith you should consider Muslim First and Anajmi;<br>In hadith Qudsi (divine saying), it has come down that the trustworthy Gabriel addressed the holy Prophet (S.A.W.A.) as such:<p>'0 Muhammad! Allah sends His greetings upon you and says:! have created the seven skies and whatever is over them and the seven earths and whatever is in them and I have not created any place better than the place of' Rukn" and "Maqam" (position of Abraham). If a slave worships Me in this very place from the time I created the heavens and the earths and then comes to Me denying the Wilayah of Ali, I shall cast him in the Fire.'<br>*********************************<p>Once again I Challange you, Nizari<p>Post Rference Number, Post Arabic Transliteration of Hadith Qudse you qouted.<p>After that we will have debate on validity of your claims.<p><p>

[Guest]

As i said, i dont know the citation of the Hadith or the transliteration<p>I read it on a website and showed to you. <p>But you wont anser any of the above questions and Quranic verses.<br>Are you a disbeliever in the Quran?

[Guest]

<br>Give me website address<p>Or you are ****<p>

[Guest]

MF<p>You challenge br Nizari to what avail?<br>ARE You getting DESPERATE again - trying to do what? <p>Prove the VALIDITY of your wahabiyya creed?<p>For that - all you have to do is look at yourself and your paymaster - the Saudis and their serfs - the taleban, the DEOBABDIS of pakistan, for example.<p>Nizari has CORROBORATED the hadith re: <br>1)Walayih back to the quran and,<br>2)that there has been IMAMS (Walayah) from inception of time has also been CORROBORATED back to the Torah & Injeel and Quran!<p>Now, you wish to read the very same hadith on line to believe?<br>The shia hadeeths are not that prolific on-line as the BUKHARI is!<p>And - whether you believe or not is upto you. <br>We are bloody SURE that you will choose to remain BLIND and FROZEN in time of the 7th century.<p>GOOD LUCK!

[Guest]

Beavis and Butthead,<p>Please refer to this link to get the truth about Ismailis.<p>http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum ... l<p>Beavis says ""The shia hadeeths are not that prolific on-line as the BUKHARI is!""<p>Do you know why??<p>

[Guest]

Beavis,<p>Butthead also said that<p>""As i said, i dont know the citation of the Hadith or the transliteration<br>I read it on a website and showed to you.""<p>And you say that they are not prolific on-line.<p>Beavis and Butthead now debate with each other.

[Guest]

anajmi<br>You LIVE up to your reputation of being a MENTAL dwarf.<p>There are no complete listing of shia hadiths that have been put on-line. You will only find bits & pieces on shia sites and specfic-ones on anti-shia sites funded by the wahabiyya dole.<p>Sahih Bukhari is the only hadeeth that are completely listed for reference on-line.<br>Even hadeeths from scholar Muslim is partial.<p>CORRECT me if I am wrong!<p>

[Guest]

Well, I thought you would understand what I was writing, (it was a tongue in cheek comment) but I guess I was expecting too much.

[Guest]

anajmi<p>It WAS not a 'tongue in cheek' comment! You meant everything you said.<p>You have no idea what you write! Your are a VERIFIABLE Moron. <br>Here I shall give you an opportunity to prove otherwise in the thread: IMAM FROM SEED! Pls visit that thread and provethat you R not a VERIFIABLR Moron.

[Guest]

Beavis,<p>You are mistaken beavis, you are making a mistake, that is because you are mistaken. Well, see you have erred that means that you have made a mistake, since you have been mistaken.<p>And since you have made a mistake you are now in error because you have mistakenly erred.

[Guest]

Well, here is the problem, butthead quotes a hadith and Muslim First asks about the source - understandable<p>Butthead says he found it on the net, Muslim First asks for the link - understandable<p>Beavis says shia hadiths are not all on the web - understandable<p>But butthead talked about a hadith on the web so this one has to be on the web, beavis says not all are on the web - not understandable. Spin is the word that comes to mind.

[Guest]

Sardar anajmi,<p>Is tautology considered wit in wahabi Islam?<p>Gursevak (now verging away from Bohra Sunnah)