Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Guest · #1

Brother qiyam Assalamo-AlaikumI want to request you to look-up Ayas in Quran referring to Fird salah. Count them and tell me if ther are Three, Four or Five salah enjoined.Please limit discussion to Quran only. No Ahadis.I also request Nizar's to stay out of this bacause this is about most central aspect of being Muslim. All Muslim must believe in this without any if's and but's.I will await for your post.May Allah keep us on straight pathWasalaam

Guest · #2

Correction:I also request Nizari's (aka asif kahan/hafeez/Nizari) to stay out of this bacause this is about most central aspect of being Muslim. All Muslim must believe in this without any if's and but's.

Guest · #3

Dear MuslimFirst, From the Quran, the salat refered to are three and sometimes four. In the ayats:Asr until Isha, and Fajr [17.78] Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.Fajr, Maghrib, Isha [11.114] And keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first hours of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds this is a reminder to the mindful.Maghrib and Fajr [30.17] Therefore glory be to Allah when you enter upon the time of the evening and when you enter upon the time of the morning.Maghrib or Isha and Zhuhr [30.18] And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday.The prayers indicated with specific fixed times are fajr (dawn time), zhuhr (midday), and maghrib (sunset). Asr is to be prayed at the "..sun's decline" and Isha is indicated at the "..first hours of the night". These are the two in question.

Guest · #4

What about the CANONICAL Slavery and abusing women & non-muslims?Make sure you tell us who has the 'pristinest' namaz - the sunnis or bohras?ALSO, Make sure you tell us all about the WADHU and ADZHAN, as well, and who cleans & does adzhan the best? I guess pigs do not take showers/bath and time-pieces still do not exist!

Guest · #5

Brother Qiyam,You said that it was better to pray 3 times as that enables you to pray Isha and Asr at the earliest times and that is what needs to be done.However when I used to go the the Bohra mosques for prayers during Moharram and Ramadhan - specifically during lailatul-qadr, the bayan goes on till the very edge of the time of Zuhr or Maghrib and then the Amir goes through the prayer at lightning speed skipping the Sunnats and directly going for the fardh prayers cause the time to offer Zuhr/Maghrib is just about over.And please do not tell me that this is an isolated incident cause it is not. So I guess not every Amil knows what you know about offering the prayers at the earliest possible time.

Guest · #6

Dear Anajmi, I will argue with what you have said..because I have seen it myself. But it is not the norm, and it is wrong for you to state the situation as though it were. Currently during Muharram, the shiekh prays the Maghrib fardh, sunnat, tatawa, then the Isha sunnat, fardh, and nawafil. It is the same for Zhuhr and Asr.I was in Houston last year with Maulana (tus) and he has done the same. He starts the bayan at 11 am until the time of Zhuhr..prays all the Zhuhr and Asr salats and continued the bayan until an hour before Maghrib.

Guest · #7

correction I wrote to Br. Anajmi "I will argue..."It should be "I will not argue..."

Guest · #8

Brother Qiyam,Does it mean then that when the Zuhr/Maghrib namaz is delayed, at such times, we are actually praying kaza Zuhr and Maghrib?

Guest · #9

Br. qiyamSo now we agree that in Quran, atleast Four times are mentioned about nuber of times we are asked by Allah SWT to pray namelyBefore Sunrise (Fajr)After sun's decline (Zuhar)Afternoon (Asr)Evening Hours (Maghrib & Ishaa)Most commentator translate "tumsu_na with such phrases as [when you come to evening] or [when ye reach eventide].As we have discussed before our Prophet SAW was clearly instructed by Angle of Allah (Gebriel AS) about proper timing of these prayers.Now that it is clear that at least four times are mentioned in Quran (30:17 & 18) [that should shut-up those who claim "five prayers in Three times"].So let me ask you "why are you violatinig Allah's command and completiong Five Fird prayers in tree times?"or, you do not believe that Prophet was not instructed about proper timing of Five Fird prayers?Wasalaam

Guest · #10

Dear Anajmi, "Does it mean then that when the Zuhr/Maghrib namaz is delayed, at such times, we are actually praying kaza Zuhr and Maghrib?"--No, the times of salats have preferred times, but you can delay to a point. Such as Fajr salat can be delayed just before sunrise and still be ada. Asr can be prayed until a specific time in the afternoon and still be ada. This is the same for all the prayers.

Guest · #11

Dear MuslimFirst, No, Fajr-Zhuhr-Maghrib have specific times...while Asr and Isha have a variant time span. Let me explain:Asr is refered to be prayed at the declining of the sun. When does this happen....right after the sun reaches the zenith (which is zawwal and the time for Zhuhr).Isha is refered to be prayed at the both at nightfall and the first hours of the night. When does this happen...night start right after sunset or maghrib.Secondly, let not go into the hadiths, as you requested. Your entire argument on the five times is based on one dafif hadith. In our original debate..I gave you at least five hadiths stating the Asr and Isha prayed at the earliest times..in addition to being combined with Zhuhr and Maghribe.

Guest · #12

If Asr and Zuhar has earliest time of decline of sun then why are thy named differnt?If Maghrib and Ishaa has earliest time of sunset then why are thy named differnt?Asr=afternoonZuhr = noon, MiddayWell brother I give upThere is no answer why Allah SWT mentioned Four times and You pray three timesWasalaam

Guest · #13

Dear MuslimFirst, Your falling into empty simantic now.Fajr means dawn and this is when you pray it.Zhuhr is the midday or zawal time.Asr is prayed afternoon...get it after the noon so it can be delayed.Maghrib is means setting or the sun's setting.Isha the night and the Quran says the prayer is at nightfall or first hours of night. When does night fall??? After sun has completely set..night has fallen. Isha can be delayed also.But the best times are the earliest.And I don't know how many times I must repeat this...the Quran has described all the times and indicated all the five prayers. Three of the prayer times are fixed according to the description..fajr, zhuhr, maghrib..the other two are variant asr and isha. It is the ulamah who made Asr and Isha officially at the latest times not Allah.

Guest · #14

Brother Qiyam,So does it mean the zuhr and asr have overlapped timings and maghrib and Isha have overlapped timings?

Guest · #15

Dear Br. Anajmi, In reference to praying the salat "on time" or ada..no they don't overlap. The ada time for Zhuhr is zawal with a variant of about 1 hour. If Zhuhr is delayed, yet still ada, you cannot pray Asr..because Zhuhr is still ada. This is the same for Maghrib. If maghrib is still ada yet delayed from the earliest time..you cannot pray Isha first.However, if Maghrib has become qadha and Isha is ada..you should first pray the qadha of Maghrib and than Isha as ada, unless Isha is being prayed in Imamat at the time..then you pray the Isha Imamat and directly makeup the Maghrib.

Guest · #16

Brother Qiyam,I do not understand.Let's say the time for Zuhr is 1:00 pm as it is normally in Bombay. It takes about 15 minutes to pray Zuhr. Asr then starts at about 1:15 pm.As I was discussing about delays during the bayans, the Zuhr prayer starts at say 2:00 pm (sometimes it goes to 2:30 pm). That means that the Asr prayer will now start at 2:15 pm.So if the valid time for Zuhr is from 1:00 pm to 2:00 pm and Zuhr and Asr times do not overlap then how can we pray Asr at 1:15 pm?If we can pray Asr at 1:15 and still pray Zuhr at 2:00 pm then there has to be an overlap.

Guest · #17

Br. qiyam Please also work withmeFollowing is what I obtained from Bohri site for todaySalaat Timings for Mumbai, IndiaFajr 6:04 AM Sunrise 6:43 AM Zawal 12:46 PM Zuhr End 2:47 PM Asr End 4:48 PM Maghrib 6:50 PMZawal is at 12.46PM that is when Zuhr Starts Zuhr Ends at 2:47 PMThat is Betwwen 12:46 and 2:47 is Zuhr time and one can offer Zuhr at this time. Also till 2:47 Asr has not arrived so one cannot offer Asr between this time.Remember Prophet said No Salah should be offered before its time or Salah should be offered on time.Between 2:47 and 4:48 is strictly what is called Asr time.Only bone of contention is that, As per your Madhahab Asr can be offered before its time. and so can be Ishaa.If that is the case we have nothing to argue.Lakum Din-Kum Waliya-dinWasalaam

Guest · #18

Dear Br. Anajmi, I think I misunderstood what you were refering to. Asr and Isha have no specific time of prayer that it must start by. It does have a specific time it must end by though. Asr is described as the afternoon prayer and is prayed after Zhuhr until roughly midtime between Zhuhr and Maghrib (this varies city to city). Isha is from after Maghrib until the time of Nisful Layl (half the night). Let me give an actual account:Sihori 5:28 AM Fajr 6:04 AM Sunrise 6:43 AM Zawal 12:46 PM Zuhr End 2:47 PM Asr End 4:48 PM Maghrib 6:50 PM for March 20 in Mumbai (via mumineen.org)Between Zawwal and Zhuhr end the Zhuhr namaz is ada (on time) and Asr cannot be prayed until Zhuhr is first prayed. It seems like there is overlap because your assuming a strict start time of Asr, when the only criteria for Asr being ada is after completing Zhuhr or when the Zhuhr end time arrive. This is the same for Maghrib and Isha.Also, when I said 1 hour between Zawal and Zhuhr end I was refering to my local (America), which it is currently. This varies from city to city..this is why I posted for Mumbai.

Guest · #19

Dear MuslimFirst, You beat me to the reference.But to your point,"That is Betwwen 12:46 and 2:47 is Zuhr time and one can offer Zuhr at this time." ---Corrrect."Also till 2:47 Asr has not arrived so one cannot offer Asr between this time.---This is incorrect. The criterian for the start of Asr is after performing Zhuhr salat on time. See your basing your argument of that one hadith again. When many other hadiths say earliest time...and the earliest time is after the Zhuhr salat is completed."Remember Prophet said No Salah should be offered before its time or Salah should be offered on time." ---The hadith is correct but misused in this instance. You see again the only criterian for the Asr start is after Zhuhr..not the Zhuhr end time."Between 2:47 and 4:48 is strictly what is called Asr time." ---Wrong...this is strictly Asr ada and you cannot perform Zhuhr ada in this time. The only limitation on the start time of Asr is that Zhuhr must first be performed "on time"."Only bone of contention is that, As per your Madhahab Asr can be offered before its time. and so can be Ishaa."---Again, your making a judgement with no substance. You established that Asr and Isha have specific start times based entirely on one hadith. Even the Quran states that Asr starts at the declining of sun..and Isha starts at first hours of nightfall. Well when does the sun decline and when is nightfall????The sun declines after the zenith or zawal (Zhuhr). The night falls after sunset or maghrib.

Guest · #20

Volume 1, Book 10, Number 524: Narrated Abu Bakr bin Uthman bin Sahl bin Hunaif: that he heard Abu Umama saying: We prayed the Zuhr prayer with 'Umar bin Abdul Aziz and then went to Anas bin Malik and found him offering the Asr prayer. I asked him, "O uncle! Which prayer have you offered?" He said 'The Asr and this is (the time of) the prayer of Allah s Apostle which we used to pray with him." Volume 1, Book 10, Number 525: Narrated Anas bin Malik: Allah's Apostle used to offer the 'Asr prayer at a time when the sun was still hot and high and if a person went to Al-'Awali (a place) of Medina, he would reach there when the sun was still high. Some of Al-'Awali of Medina were about four miles or so from the townVolume 1, Book 10, Number 537: Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet prayed seven Rakat together and eight Rakat together.

Guest · #21

Dear br. qiyamPrayers are combined for convience only. Shia's of Iran openly acknowledge this fact.I was told by Iranian Brother theat Imaam Khomani has issued Fatwa recommending that it is better to pray on Five separate time.90% of believing and observing Muslim answer to call of prayers Five times a day.Prophet SAW and Hz. Ali RAA prayed and answered call of prayer (BTW that call did not include Ali's name) on five separate times of day.There is no Hadith about this bacause it was normal and God commanded thing to do. If somebody started collecting Hadith about Prophet praying five separate times of day then there would be thousands of Ahadits. Yes there are few Hadit of combining prayers without any reason and Shia's hang their hat on it for convience only.There could not be any better proof then 30:17 and 18 that prayer after decline of sun and Afternoon prayers are mentioned separately. Why are you disobaying Quran?Once again here is word by word interpretaed TranslationFrom “Study the NOBLE QURAN “ Word-for -Word ----DARUSSALAM PRESSAyah 17 Transliteration:-Fasubha_nal la_hi hina tumsu_na wa hina tusbihu_nFasubha_n [So glorify] al la_hi [Allah] hina [when] tumsu_na [when you come to evening] wa hina [and when] tusbihu_n [you enter the morning]So glorify Allah [above all that (evil they associate with Him (O believers)], when you come up to evening [i.e. offer the (Maghrib) sunset and (Isha) night prayers], and when you enter the morning [i.e. offer the (fajr) morning prayers].Ayah 18Transliteration:- Wa lahul hamdu fis sama_wa_ti wal ardi wa asiy yaw wa hina tuzhiru_nWa lahu [and for Him] l hamdu [all praises and thanks ] fi [in] s sama_wa_ti [the heavens] wal ardi [and the earth] wa asiy yaw[ and in the afternoon] wa hina [and when] tuzhiru_n [you come to when the day begins to decline]And His are all praises and thanks in the heavens and the earth; and (glorify Him) in the afternoon (i.e. offer Asr prayers) and when you come up to the time, when day begins to decline (i.e. offer Zuhr prayer).(Ibn Abbas said; “these are the five compulsory congregational mentioned in Quran,” Tafseer -At-Tabari) You have been drilled to believe that Asr start when Zuhr prayer is completed by individual or Jamaat, but for 90% of muslim Ummah Asr starts only when it is ASR time that is when, ones Shadow is equal to his height plus shadow at noon. and has no bearing on completion of Zuhr prayer. At that time Zuhr becomes Kada and If Jamaat has started praying Asr then you must join Jamaat even if you have missed Zuhar prayer.Once again I have said Lakum Deen-kum walay DeenI have said all I have to say.Wasalaam

Guest · #22

BTW here is suggestionIslamic day begins at sunset.So at sunset all five prayers become ADA and all five can be offered at same time. (What a convience. Going to Marquz only once and Aalim can work all day and support himself and more money is left for Maulana and is ROYAL family)At Isha time Magrib prayer becomes Kada but rest of Four are still Ada and can be offerd togheter. (Convience, you can keep your shop open till late night and still be in good grace of Allah)At Fajr time Magrib and Isah becomes Kada but other three are still ADA and can be offerd to gether (Cconvience for late night party animals. You can whoop it up and still be good Muslim)and so on and onI think I am going to dust up book given to me by my brother-an-law. Its by his Pir Kwaja Azeem of Karachi. "Learn Telephathy". I can transmit this concept to Syedana tell him I am Imaam in hiding and tell him this is my New Farmaan.A wishful thinking.Wasalaam

Guest · #23

Dear MuslimFirst, This is indeed sad.Prayers are combined for convience only. Shia's of Iran openly acknowledge this fact.I was told by Iranian Brother theat Imaam Khomani has issued Fatwa recommending that it is better to pray on Five separate time.---Ayatullah Khomeni is not the Imam of the Shias..he is a scholar. It made the fatwa only for sunni shia unity. Convience is based on your opinion...see the hadith I posted...it doesn't mention convience. In the Hajj...it is required to combine the prayers...in the time of Rasullah..the prayers could have easily been separated..if they were suppose to be."90% of believing and observing Muslim answer to call of prayers Five times a day."--This is weak answer. 90% of Muslim were under the rule of the Ummayyad/Abbassid who forced their madhabs on the muslim or die."Prophet SAW and Hz. Ali RAA prayed and answered call of prayer (BTW that call did not include Ali's name) on five separate times of day."---Their is only one weak hadith you keep refering to saying five separate time REQUIRED! I given you five that say otherwise."There is no Hadith about this bacause it was normal and God commanded thing to do. If somebody started collecting Hadith about Prophet praying five separate times of day then there would be thousands of Ahadits."---BS! There are many hadiths on combining prayers..prayer times...how to pray..etc. Yet only one saying five separate times. Interesting."Yes there are few Hadit of combining prayers without any reason and Shia's hang their hat on it for convience only."---Yes, and only one requiring separate times...do you get the point."There could not be any better proof then 30:17 and 18 that prayer after decline of sun and Afternoon prayers are mentioned separately. Why are you disobaying Quran?"---Decline of sun..yes. Afternoon isn't mention in the ayat. Please don't do that.Fasubha_nal la_hi hina tumsu_na wa hina tusbihu_nSo glorify Allah [above all that (evil they associate with Him (O believers)], when you come up to evening [i.e. offer the (Maghrib) sunset and (Isha) night prayers], and when you enter the morning [i.e. offer the (fajr) morning prayers].--Poor translation..with alot of added words in parentheseTry this:So glorify Allah when you come up to evening and when you enter the morning.That's better!Wa lahu [and for Him] l hamdu [all praises and thanks ] fi [in] s sama_wa_ti [the heavens] wal ardi [and the earth] wa asiy yaw[ and in the afternoon] wa hina [and when] tuzhiru_n [you come to when the day begins to decline]And His are all praises and thanks in the heavens and the earth; and in the afternoon and when you come up to the time, when day begins to decline.---Firstly, the arabic word used is ISHAYAN as for Isha prayer (not Asr) and TAZH'HIRUNA as for Zhuhr prayer. So the appropiate word is nightfall, not afternoon. So a better a more accurate translation is:And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday."(Ibn Abbas said; “these are the five compulsory congregational mentioned in Quran,” Tafseer -At-Tabari) "---Yes...not five compulsory times!!!"You have been drilled to believe that Asr start when Zuhr prayer is completed by individual or Jamaat, but for 90% of muslim Ummah Asr starts only when it is ASR time that is when, ones Shadow is equal to his height plus shadow at noon. and has no bearing on completion of Zuhr prayer. At that time Zuhr becomes Kada and If Jamaat has started praying Asr then you must join Jamaat even if you have missed Zuhar prayer."---See, you have been drilled that Asr has a specific start...with absolutely no evidence attesting to it. While I have evidence showing what I profess. So who is actually confused???

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Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

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Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN

Re: Five Canonical (Fird) Salah (Namaaz) in QURAN