The Prophet's Deedar of the Noor of Allah/Holy Imam

[Guest]

<p>53:2 – “You companion has neither erred, nor has he gone astray,”<br>53:3 – “Nor does he speak out of his own desire.”<br>53:4 – “It is nothing but pure revelation revealed by God.”<br>53:5 – “The Lord of the Mighty Powers has taught him,”<br>53:6 – “The One Possessor of Powers, which MANIFEST themselves repeatedly. So HE settled Himself on the Throne.”<br>53:7 – “And HE revealed His Word when he was on the uppermost horizon.”<br>53:8 - Then the Prophet drew near to ALLAH; then ALLAH leaned down towards him.<br>53:9 - So that HE became, as it were, one chord to two bows, or closer still.<br>53:10 - Then ALLAH revealed to HIS servant that which HE revealed.<br>53:11 - The heart of the Prophet lied not in seeing what he saw?<br>53:12 - Will you, then, dispute with him about what he saw?<br>53:13 - And, certainly, he saw him a second time;<br>53:14 - Near the farthest lote tree;<br>53:15 - Near which is the Garden of Eternal abode.<br>53:16 - This was when that, which covers, covered the lote-tree.<br>53:17 - The eye deviated not, nor did it wander.<br>53:18 - Surely, he saw the GREATEST of the Signs of his Lord.<p>The above is a description of the Prophet seeing the Greatest Sign of Allah - Hazrat Ali - the Holy Imam. <p>After reading the above, read the following verse which commanded the Prophet to declare the Imamat of Ali:<p>O Messenger! Proclaim that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord, for if thou do it not, thou wilt not have conveyed His Message. Allah will protect thee from mankind. Lo! Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk.<br>HOLY QURAN 5:67<p>As you can see, Imam Ali was REVEALED to the Prophet by Allah. And likewise, the Prophet was commanded to proclaim this Revelation - Imam Ali - to the people or else the Prophet would not have delivered the Message. This shows the UTMOST IMPORTANCE of revealing Ali to mankind.<p><br>

[Guest]

<br>"The above is a description of the Prophet seeing the Greatest Sign of Allah - Hazrat Ali - the Holy Imam."<p>I might as well laugh at it and leave it alone.<p><p>

[Guest]

If only Allah in his infinite wisdom had mentioned the name of Hazrat Ali we all would've been in unison. <p>But then again who knows what the Ismailis would've thought of then!!

[Guest]

"If only Allah in his infinite wisdom had mentioned the name of Hazrat Ali we all would've been in unison. "<p>I am sure that is an unIslamic statement; is it not reducing Allah to a human's level of action/thought?<p>If only Allah in his infinite wisdom had not used allegories in the Qur'an we would not need commentaries and scholars with their differing views/contradictions.

[Guest]

Gud,<p>I appreciate your comment but I expect you to be the last one to understand whatever I write.<p>Allegories do not form a basis of the quran, people like you and Ismailis have made them a basis for doing whatever they want to within or without the realm of Islam.<p>Whatever a Muslim (a true Muslim I should mention and this does not include Ismailis and Guds) needs to know to lead a good life according to the Islamic way is available from the quran with help from the prophet's sunnah. No one needs to go searching for esoteric meanings of allegorical verses.<p>Again I expect you to be the last one to understand whatever I have written. Remember you are the missing link - something in between a no brain and a non functioning brain.

[Guest]

And what is the definition of a 'true Muslim'? Please let us know and your source of reference. Good luck!

[Guest]

Well, it written by an author called Allah and the name of the book is "the quran" and I am talking about the original one and not the one that has been interpreted by the HI (although I have never seen that interpretation)<p>So now are you out of luck or what!!

[Guest]

If you were to, sometimes, try to read the simple verses and not try to interpret the allegoricals you might gain some valuable knowledge for here and hereafter.

[Guest]

And who says that any one interpretation of the Holy Quran is correct? We can read the same verse of the HQ, however we may differ in interpretation. Furthermore, many also look at the historical relevance of when the HQ was revealed, in what environment and time, etc. etc. Reading the HQ is good, however I believe you need someone like a teacher (eg.Imam and/or Prophet) to understand the HQ more clearly.

[Guest]

Holy Quran 3/7<br>""It is Allah, Who sent down this Quran to you. (There are two kinds of verses in the Book.) In it are verses Basic or Fundamental (of established meanings which can be easily understood), and they are the essence or foundation of the Book. And the other verses are Allegorical or Ambiguous. Those in whose hearts is perversity will always go for the Allegorical or Ambiguous verses, seeking discord and trying to search for their hidden meanings. None, except Allah, knows their real meanings(Ta’aweel)! In contrast to them, those who are firmly grounded in knowledge, say: “We believe in them all, because all of them are from our Lord.""<p>The only people who always use these allegorical verses are the Ismailis. And Allah said those in whose hearts is perversity will use these verses. <p>The quran also says that much of it is basic and fundamental. Mind you this is Allah speaking, so if he says that it is basic and fundamental then it is basic and fundamental and then you come and say it is not and you need an Imam.<p>Well, YOU need the Hazar Imam to lead you to the fire.

[Guest]

Who are "those who are firmly grounded in knowledge"? In my opinion, they are none other than the Prophets and Imams.

[Guest]

Gora, <p>If your question was not rhetorical then you will have to wait for a real Muslim to join this thread before you get an answer. I wonder how one can learn from the Qur'an alone, especially if one is not trained in Arabic, as the various translations themselves are contradictory at times!<p>Why did Allah put allegorical verses in the HQ?

[Guest]

Allah put allegorical verses in the quran to isolate the Ismailis from the rest of the community and his plan has worked perfectly.<p>Here is an esoteric gem - Many times Allah refers to the Companions of the Fire in the quran - well, who are these companions. According to the esoteric meaning of this, the Ismailis are the companions of the fire, since Ismailis celebrate Navroz and as you all know Navroz is a festival of the fire worshippers.<p>Of course whatever I said above is not true as I do not know who the companions are going to be. But this is how the Ismailis play around with the words of god. The only people whose translations contradict with others translations are the Ismaili translations.<p>If that is not the case, then please quote a couple of translations and the ayahs whose translations are contradictory.

[Guest]

And yes those firmly grounded in knowledge are the prophets and the true Imams and they will say say: “We believe in them all, because all of them are from our Lord." They won't try to reinterpret.

[Guest]

56:77 – “This is, indeed, a noble Qur'an,”<br>56:78 – “In a well-preserved Book.”<br>56:79 – “Which none shall touch EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE PURIFIED.”<br>33:33 – “And God only wishes to remove all abomination from you, Ahl-ul Bayt, and to make you PURE and spotless.”<p> - The Ahl-ul Bayt have ALL access to the physical and spiritual interpretations of the Quran. So we follow the Imam of the Age who is of the Ahl-ul Bayt.<br>

[Guest]

<br>Proof of another fudging of facts by Nizari Ismailies.<p>Nizari posted at the beginning of this topic:<p>“The above is a description of the Prophet seeing the Greatest Sign of Allah - Hazrat Ali - the Holy Imam.<br> <br>After reading the above, read the following verse which commanded the Prophet to declare the Imamat of Ali:”<p>He insinuates that Sura 53 was revealed to him and he read it to his follower’s and after that he read Ayah 5:67 to proclaim “Imaamat of Ali(RA):<p>Get your facts right. Sura 53 was revealed after 5th year of prophet’s residence in Mecca. And Sura 5 was revealed in 6th or 7th year after Hijra.<p>Here is source of my info.:- <br> <br>From:-F. Malik’s Sura Introduction (Aalim-Computer Software by ISL Corp.)<p>Sura 53-Period of Revelation<p>This is the first Surah of the Qur'an, which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) had publicly recited before an assembly of the Qureysh (and according to Ibn Marduyah, in the Ka'bah) in which both the believers and the disbelievers were present. At the end, when he recited the verse requiring the performance of a Sajdah and fell down in prostration, the whole assembly also fall down in prostration with him, and even those chiefs of the polytheists who were in the forefront of the opposition to the Prophet (pbuh) could not resist falling down in prostration. Ibn Mas'ud (may Allah be pleased with him) says that he saw only one man, Umayyah bin Khalaf, from among the disbelievers, who did not fall down in prostration but took a little dust and rubbing it on his forehead said that it was enough for him. This Surah was revealed in Ramadhan OF 5TH. YEAR of Prophet's residence at Makkah.<p>Sura 5-Period of Revelation<p>This Surah appears to have been revealed after the treaty of Hudeybiyah AT END OF 6 A.H. OR BEGINNING OF 7 A.H.. It deals with problems that arose from this treaty. Thecontinuity of the subject indicates that most probably the whole Surah was revealed as a single discourse at one and the same time.<br>

[Guest]

Muslim First,<p>"After reading the above, read the following verse which commanded the Prophet to declare the Imamat of Ali:”<p>"He insinuates that Sura 53 was revealed to him and he read it to his follower’s and after that he read Ayah 5:67 to proclaim “Imaamat of Ali(RA):"<p>Brother, in another post I admitted I had misconstructed a sentence to convey an incorrect impression to which you took offence. Here I believe you are misconstruing Nizari's statement. I read his statement as an instruction to the reader to read 5:67; I do not see it as setting out the sequence of the revelation. Brother we are both struggling from time to time with the nuances of the English language. As a true Musalman, you will no doubt offer your apologies to Nizari.<p>Hope you are having a lovely weekend!

[Guest]

<br>I will repodt what Nizari said:<p>"After reading the above, read the following verse which commanded the Prophet to declare the Imamat of Ali:”<p>Nizari<br>Pl. explain what you mean by above statement.<p><br>

[Guest]

All this shia imamat business as having foundation in Quran is nonsense. <p>If it was so, then let us have some reference to imaamat as the shia interpret it in the writings of Ali.<p>Shia imaamat is a later invention. If that was not the case, why did Ali and Hassan accept the Sunni Caliphate?<p>The ismaili mythology about Ali and imams is just that. A mythology.

[Guest]

Porus, are you suggesting that Immamat and Caliphate are mutually exclusive? How will the Mahdi, when (or should that be if?) he arrives be universally accepted?<p>Muslim First, Nizari is probably not up and about yet. It will be interesting to find out whose interpretation of his quoted sentence is correct. If you are right, as you invariably are on this board, then I offer my aplogies to you in advance (I am becoming a good Muslim by just following your posts!)

[Guest]

First of all, the Quran we have today is NOT in order of revelation, it was sorted by Uthamn from longest to shortest chapter with the exception of the Sura Fatiha. <p>I relate 5:67 because the Messenger was commanded to reveal something to the people so important that we he did not, his mission would be considered incomplete.<p>O Messenger! Proclaim that which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord, for if thou do it not, thou wilt not have conveyed His Message. Allah will protect thee from mankind. Lo! Allah guideth not the disbelieving folk.<br>HOLY QURAN 5:67<p>My point is that Hazrat Ali was the revelation of utmost importance that Muhammad had to reveal to the people.<br>

[Guest]

Nizari,<p>Thank you for your comments. Just to clear up the confusion, were you in your original post suggesting that 5:67 was revealed immediately after sura 53?<p>As for the timing of 5:67, the Shia ithna-ashari sites suggest that this ayat was revealed twice, the second time at ghadir-al-khum and apparently some Sunni commentators concur with this. As any reader of the HQ knows there are number of repeat injunctions from Allah so there is no reason to believe that aya were revealed only once. In fact I have read somewhere Sura Al-baqarah contains verses from both Mecca and Medinah and in any event covers a period of at least 4 years. Therefore as you imply, it is not easy to date a verse simply on the basis of which Sura it has been included in.

[Guest]

Gursevak,<p>Porus, are you suggesting that Immamat and Caliphate are mutually exclusive? How will the Mahdi, when (or should that be if?) he arrives be universally accepted?<p>Imaamat and Caliphate mutually exclusive?<p>No. I am not suggesting that. I am suggesting that the shia concept of Imaamat did not exist during the caliphate of Ali and Hassan. The shia imaamat and virtual deification of imams were devised at a later date. That is why we have no contemporary reference to the Ismaili concept of Imaamat during the reign of Ali and Hassan.<p>Mahdi, whether it is twelver or Tayyibi, will not be universally accepted just as other religious leaders like Jesus, Muhammad and Buddha were not and are not even now universally accepted in the way that their followers accept them.

[Guest]

Porus, <p>you are correct in saying that during the time of Ali, Hasan and Husayn, we did not have the idea of Imamat. It was always called Khalifate in those days. <p>The actual philosophy of Imamat was expounded by Imam Muhammad al-Baqir and Imam Jafar Sadiq. That being said, it does not mean that Imamat did not exist in Ali's time. people just did not know about it. However, the Prophet made the Walayat of Ali very clear at Ghadeer Khum yet ppl disobeyed.

[Guest]

Here is another thing that Shias (and I happen to be one but on the other side) believe - The quran that has been revealed is incomplete. There were 10 extra sections (there are 30 now) dedicated to the greatness of Ali and only the hidden Imam or the Hazar Imam possess those.

[Guest]

Al-Quran is complete according to both the belief of Sunnis and Shias. If you find some weird hadith that say otherwise then throw them out.

[Guest]

Sister jinx,<p>I do not say this because I had a dream. I believe that the quran is complete. I was told this by a bohra Amil in a high post when I went to him with the question of Hazrat Ali and the shia sunni differences. If the bohra clergy (or shias in general) believed that the quran was complete we wouldn't be having these differences.

[Guest]

What is the name of this Bohra amil and where is he from?