The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

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enlightenedone
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:01 am

The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#1

Unread post by enlightenedone » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:07 pm

Hundreds of years of fighting, six and a half wars, billions of dollars gone with the wind, tens of thousands of victims, not including the boy who laid down next to me on the rocky beach of lake Karon in 1982 and we both watched his guts spilling out.
The helicopter took him and until this day I do not know whether he is dead or survived.
All this, and one cannot figure it out.
And it is not only what happened but all that did not happen - hospitals that were never built, universities that were never opened, roads that were never paved, the three years that were taken from millions of teenagers for the sake of the army.
And despite all the above, we still do not have the beginning of a clue to the mystery of where it all started:
Why do they hate us so much?
I am not talking about the Palestinians this time.
Their dispute with us is intimate, focused, and it has a direct effect on their lives. Without getting into the "which side is right" question, it is obvious that they have very personal reasons not to stand our presence here. We all know that eventually this is how it will be solved: in a personal way, between them and us, with blood sweat and tears that will stain the pages of the agreement.
Until then, it is a war that could at least be understood, even if no sane person is willing to accept the means that are used to run it by.
It is the others. Those I cannot understand.
Why does Hassan Nasralla, along with tens of thousands of his supporters, dedicate his life, his visible talents, his country's destiny, to fight a country he has never even seen, people he has never really met and an army that he has no reason to fight?
Why do children in Iran, who cannot even locate Israel on the map (especially because it is so small), burn its flag in the city center and offer to commit suicide for its elimination? Why do Egyptian and Jordanian intellectuals agitate the innocent and helpless against the peace agreements, even though they know that their failure will push their countries 20 years back? Why are the Syrians willing to stay a pathetic and depressed third world country, for the dubious right to finance terror organizations that will eventually threaten their own country's existence? Why do they hate us so much in Saudi-Arabia? --In Iraq?--In Sudan? What have we done to them?
How are we even relevant to their lives? What do they know about us? Why do they hate us so much in Afghanistan? They don't have anything to eat there, where do they get the energy to hate?

This question has so many answers and yet it is a mystery. It is true that it is a religious matter but even religious people make their choices. The Koran (along with the Shariaa - the Muslim parallel to the Jewish Halacha) consists of thousands of laws, why is it that we occupy them so much?
There are so many countries who gave them much better reasons to be angry. We did not start the crusades, we did not rule them during the colonial period, we never tried to convert them. The Mongolians, the Seljuk, the Greeks, the Romans, the Crusaders, the
Ottomans, the British, they all conquered, ruined and plundered the whole region. We did not even try, so how come we are the enemy?
And if it is identification with their Palestinians brothers then where are the Saudi Arabian tractors building up the territories that were evacuated? What happened to the Indonesian delegation building a school in Gaza strip? Where are the Kuwaiti doctors with their modern surgical equipment? There are so many ways to love your brothers, why do they all prefer to help their brothers with hating?
Is it something that we do? Fifteen hundreds years of anti-Semitism taught us - in the most painful way possible - that there is something about us that irritates the world. So, we did the thing everyone wanted: we got up and left. We have established our own tiny little country, where we can irritate ourselves without interrupting others. We didn't even ask a lot for it. Israel is spread on a smaller territory than 1% of the territory of Saudi-Arabia, with no oil, no minerals, without settling on another existing state's territory. Most of the cities that were bombed this week were not plundered from anyone. Nahariya, Afula, and Karmiel did not even exist until we established them. The other katyusas landed on territories over which no one ever questioned our right with regards to them. In Haifa there were Jews already in the 3rd century BC and Tiberias was the place where the last Sanhedrin sat, so no one can claim we plundered them from anyone.
However, the hatred continues. As if no other destiny is possible. Active hatred, poisoned, unstoppable.
Last Saturday the president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, called again "to act for the vanishing of Israel"' as if we were bacteria.
We got used to it so much that we don't even ask why.Israel does not hope and never did for Iran to vanish.
As long as they wanted, we had diplomatic relations with them. We do not have a common border with them or even any bad memories.
And still, they are willing to confront the whole western world, to risk a commercial boycott, to hurt their own quality of life, to crush what's left of their economy and all that for the right to passionately hate us.
I am trying to remember and cannot: have we ever done something to them? When? How? Why did he say in his speech that "Israel is the main problem of the Muslim world"?
More than a billion people living in the Muslim world, most of them in horrible conditions.
They suffer from hunger, poverty, ignorance, bloodshed that spreads from Kashmir to Kurdistan, from dying Darfur to injured Bangladesh.
How come we are the main problem? How exactly are we in their way?
I refuse to accept the argument that claims "that is just the way they are". They said it about us so many times that we have learned to accept this expression.
There must be another reason, some dark secret that because of it, the citizens of South Lebanon allow to rouse the quiet border, to kidnap the soldiers of an army that has already retreated from their territory, to turn their country into a wasteland exactly at the time they finally escaped twenty years of disasters.
We got used to telling ourselves worn expressions - "it's the Iranian influence", or "Syria is stirring behind the scenes" - but it is just too easy explanation. Because what about them? What about their thoughts? What about their hopes, loves, ambitions and their dreams? What about their children?
When they send their children to die, does it seem enough for them to say that it was all worth while just because they hate us so much?



:-) Contributed by John (-:

Humsafar
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#2

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:27 pm

enlightenedone,

I must question your motive behind posting such simple-minded drivel here. You so primly warn others against getting emotional and then go on to post sentimental hogwash that even a fifth grader would be ashamed of. What are you trying to do? Generate sympathy for the misery and plight that Israel suffers at the hands of Arabs?

Tell the author of this drivel that Arabs hate jews/israel for two main reasons:

1) They carved an artificial country in their midst by force and cunning.

2) They continue to occupy and brutalize Palestinians to this day.

Most Arab countries have come accept fact #1 as fait accompli. But fact #2 continues to rile and enrage them.

If Israel ends the occupation today and withdraws to the 1967 borders, I'm certain 90% of Arab hatred will disappear. It is as simple as that, really. No mystrey.

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#3

Unread post by tahir » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:40 pm

enlightenedone,

I must say that I have started to agree with you. In line with your absolutely detached and enlightened attitude here is something insightful for these morons on the board:
Auschwitz, the Premium Holiday Camp

Look how the jews get emotional about the nazi behaviour to them. What the jews called concentration camps were actually holiday camps with a lot of five star facilities but the jews think from adrenalin. I wish they could be objective...

enlightenedone
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#4

Unread post by enlightenedone » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:41 pm

So why is the hate the only factor that brings Muslims and Arabs together?

Hate is not an emotion for survival. Hate is an emotion which causes destruction of oneself.

What is said is not drivel -- it is what the world thinks of us.

tahir
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#5

Unread post by tahir » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:59 pm

You are the assistant zombie....

Humsafar
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#6

Unread post by Humsafar » Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:50 pm

What an asinine response, you enlightenedone! It's not hate that brings Arabs and Muslims (peoples) together. It's the quest for justice that brings them together, you fool. Hate is just one of the many emotions Arabs/Muslims feel towards israel – they also feel anger, outrage, despair, frustration, helplessness etc. If you had any sense of decency and sensitivity towards human suffering you would feel the same. In any case, why single out "hate" and harp on it like a parrot who has just escaped from George W's private aviary?

What is said is not drivel -- it is what the world thinks of us.

So that's what you are worried about, you slobbering self-pitying enlightenedone. Who in God's wide frigging world cares what the world thinks of us. Rather, Israel and the West should be more worried about what the majority of the world thinks of them. But they don’t. But we should. Why? Because they are our masters!

enlightenedone
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#7

Unread post by enlightenedone » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:06 pm

Humsafar:

Let me put you to test. Let us assume what you are saying is right. Everything you say is right.

So what are you gong to do about it? What is the solution?


Humsafar
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#9

Unread post by Humsafar » Sat Aug 26, 2006 12:50 pm

What i'm going to do about what?

You seems to have a problem with "Muslim backwardness", so you tell me what are you going to do about it apart from cutting and pasting second-rate articles gloryfying jews.

If you are concerned about the Muslim hatred of jews/israel, the solution is simple (see my previous post): all israel has to do is free Palestinian lands and withdraw to pre-1967 borders.

enlightenedone
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#10

Unread post by enlightenedone » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:12 pm

I never said anything about Muslims being bakward. All I said was Muslims can become better by emulating some of the good points of Jews.

You are the one who just mouths off with supposedly intelligent conversation without doing anything.

So good bye all of you. Keep posting your venom and dreaming..

enlightenedone
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#11

Unread post by enlightenedone » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:17 pm

Humsafar:

If you hate the american policy of supporting Israel> I have a solution for you -- leave america and go to iraq or saudi arabia and see how you get treated.

At least you have the freedom to post an article saying what you say in America and Israel. Try saying anything against the Saudi Arabians in Saudi Arabia and your choice parts will be in your hands.

So stop talking garbage. Why can't all of the Arabs with all that land accomodate the Palestenians? Where were they when they were massacred? By the way your hating the Jews did not bring any Muslim back to life and will not.

And Palestinians will never get Palestine back if they do not aknowledge the existence of Israel.

But this is my last post -- you guys are useless.

Humsafar
Posts: 2623
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2000 5:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#12

Unread post by Humsafar » Mon Aug 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Lightenedone, it's very wise of you to not or write anymore because the more you express yourself the more you reveal your learned ignorance.
If you hate the American policy of supporting Israel> I have a solution for you -- leave America and go to Iraq or Saudi Arabia and see how you get treated.
A great many Americans criticise their government's support for Israel, so what do you suggest, they too should go to Iraq/Saudi Arabia? America is a democracy where citizens enjoy individual freedoms and it is their RIGHT and DUTY to criticise and condemn government policy and take politicians to task. That's what democracy is all about. I think it's Edward Abbey who said, "A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government." (The lack of freedoms in Saudi Arabia in no way validates America's questionable support for Israel. To equate one with the other is a logical fallacy.)
At least you have the freedom to post an article saying what you say in America and Israel. Try saying anything against the Saudi Arabians in Saudi Arabia and your choice parts will be in your hands.
Let Saudi Arabians worry how their country is run, Americans have the responsibility to make sure that their government respects its own constitution and international law.
So stop talking garbage. Why can't all of the Arabs with all that land accomodate the Palestenians? Where were they when they were massacred? By the way your hating the Jews did not bring any Muslim back to life and will not.
Tahir is right; you've passed the Jewish test with flying colours. You seem to be so well-versed in Zionist propaganda. The question is not whether Arabs can accommodate Palestinians or not, but of getting back what legitimately belongs to them. What would you do if your house gets stolen, expect your neighbours to accommodate you or try to get it back? Unwittingly, the logic of your argument is more applicable to the Jews: why did the Zinoists seek a new, artificial homeland on a stolen land? Why couldn't Europe and America have accommodated them?
And Palestinians will never get Palestine back if they do not aknowledge the existence of Israel.
As I said before, almost all Arab countries have come to accept Israel, and Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations (Oslo accord etc.) are based on the acceptance of a two-nation theory. It is wrong and dishonest to say Palestinians don't accept the existence of Israel. But how would you know that with your Zionist blinkers on.
But this is my last post -- you guys are useless.
If you understand Urdu...

yeH kya ke ek teere malaamat na seh sake
honi haiN abhi koobakoo ruswaayii dostoN

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#13

Unread post by anajmi » Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:35 pm

Israel wants the Palestinians to recognize it's own statehood while it refuses to accept Palestinian statehood. No wonder the jews/Israelis have never been able to live in peace in all of history.

anajmi
Posts: 13511
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#14

Unread post by anajmi » Tue Aug 29, 2006 3:54 am

71-year-old Gitmo detainee released

These are the terrorists that terrorize the most powerful democracy in the world.

hfz
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:01 am

Re: The Mysery of Hate -- not sure who the author is..

#15

Unread post by hfz » Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:53 am

masya Allah..

if a non-Muslim, let alone a non-Bohra or a non-Sunni, or whatever, were to drop by and view this forum, they'd find us MUSLIMS silly. tehy who have no prior knowledge about anything, will be exposed of something...the breaking-up of MUSLIMS.

but, thank God. this is just an online discussion. but i wouldn't be surprised if these were to happen in reality...MUSLIMS against MUSLIMS.

oh, yeah. that's when the qiamah is nearing.

sigh.

wassalam.