Is Prophet Mohammad also referred to as "NOOR"

[znanwalla]

Don't make me laugh ! If you don't understand what is being said then go back to school...do you think any of you can push us around or "expose' us ? You must be kidding pal ! go and find some other "bakras"....if you claim that your scribes had mastered the Quran by heart and knew what they were doing then how come they could not even place the mushufs in its right chronological sequence? and so if all the commentators below know whichayats were revealed at Khum e Ghadir, why you folks don't know this? whom are you fooling? and so now who will carry whose burden of whose soul? had we shown you from Sh'ia sources you would have barked "fabrication of the Sh'ias" as is your style...so now why don't you also say that your own scholars too have fabricated and that you will not carry the burden of their souls !!! hahahahah! Jokers !

[pardesi]

Znan,

In their efforts to "expose" us they have exposed their own weaknesses disability and ignorance. They say things and then try to back it up with Ayats that in fact apply to them tailor made. "Ajmarifirst" is completely lost and is trying to make us quote Ayats of Quran worded exactly the way they want to see for us to be able to refute their statements and when we turn the tables on them they try to put a spin on Ayats with their own interpretation with "likelihood" meanings. Now who wants a translation of an Ayat with a "could likely mean". Ajmarifirst is desparately trying to save face with six hands but has failed miserably. If he had any feet left he would have used it too but he they are in his mouth.

[znanwalla]

brother pardesi.....at this point in time and try and read the posting in the other thread between MF and Turbo, I have given my willingness to call it a "truce" if Najmi and Areef are also willing to do the same...in the interest of Muslim Unity and islamic brotherhood ! Make it a point to read what I have said to Turbo et al and the choice is clear ...Standing up for and upholding Qist (equality, balance and justice) must transcend one’s likes or dislikes and must not be impacted by one’s love or hate...it is a shame that we all have to get into all this squabbles, if I may say so....some of my best friends are Sunnis and so I am greatly pained to lock horns....so it is now upon Najmi and Areef as by now they should realize that it is not so easy to push us around and it is perhaps hurting and not benefiting anyone.........let me know how you all feel? at least later on I cannot be blamed as I have lots of steam left and unravelling to do but lets allow better sense to prevail, if possible...Thanks...zn

[pardesi]

If they are sincere, I am for it. But going by the experience of watching them operate here, I wouldn't hold my breath. They make a living off of abusing others and haven't spared anyone who doesn't share their beliefs. It is not only Ismailis but they will lock horn with anyone who would show better knowledge than theirs. They, and specially one of 'em, has gotten credit for some intellectuals not participating and thereby not sharing their knowledge. It is unfortunate that this website has lost some really good thinkers and God knows how many are turned off because of the attitude shown on these forums. Bickering is one's nature, but abuse ..... I guess that supercedes even Iblis. And he was most knowledgeable among the Angels. The Prophet has spoken of Dajjals, the one-eyed ones. These are Dajjals of our time making Iblis look like a rookie.

[znanwalla]

Thank you Pardesi....we have done our part and that is what is important....the Admin is reading - the other members too are reading and now the ball is not in our court...........so we will try and be easy until we hear from Najmi/Areef and like I said if they still wish to pursue their agenda, then so be it....but we have shown our good faith publicly !...zn

[pardesi]

Like I said, I am for it. Even Prophet Mohammad had made truce with the Jews for greater benefit of Islam, then these are our Muslim brothers. Hopefully at the Juma prayers Allah will inspire them to accept our offer. I am optimistic.

[znanwalla]

Inshallah ! now enjoy this one....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOIFc90dDxM

[Aarif]

Pardesi,

I am thouroughly enjoying your comic conversation with ZN. It is like two Ismailis trying to convince each other that they are right. And what sources do they use for that? Ahadith which according to them cannot be true because it portrays the Paak rasul as a peadophile, child molester and terrorist. Than they come back using the same Ahadith to justify their point on Noor of allah... The funny part is that they criticize muslims at every opportunity they get for following Ahadith... But when it comes to proving their point these hypocrites use the same scriptures to spin the topic. The Ismailis will not even spare holy Quran when it comes to criticizing other muslims by saying that they are using an incomplete and corrupt Quran. But when they debate they copy paste ayahs from this same Quran which is corrupt and incomplete according to them. And that is not all. They depend on Yusuf Ali for translation of Quran inspite of having access to their all knowing bolta Quran Hazar Imam.

Pardesi you should be ashamed of yourself for using these scriptures to prove your point which you and your cohorts criticize at every opportunity you get.

[pardesi]

Brother Aarif,

I am going to hold my response to your post in the interest of letting Znan's offer of peace prevail. Znan's offer of truce encompasses all that we all have done and used and said on this board and is still open. It is up to you to decide where we go from here.

Peace and Pluralism.

[znanwalla]

You have not spared any effort to do the same either and so don't try and blame just one side.....plus you guys started it first !....and two wrongs have never made one right !

Islam and will prevail.....our individual differences may never end as this perhaps is a characteristic of human society....We do not regard differences in juristic details as undermining any islamic brotherhood or unity and we hope you will also look at this in the same way as "winning at all costs" is not in our collective interest as even today there are enemies of Islam who can easily capitalize and so neither of us will seem prudent in the end, if that ever happens....zn

[Africawala0000]

Anajmi,

Infact I would ask the Ismailis to shift their allegiance to Barack Hussain Obama. He is far more powerful than Aga Khan will ever be. Besides, Aga Khan can grab only 12.5% of what is left after Barack Hussain Obama grabs over 30% of the total. And Barack Hussain Obama will get it not just from Ismailis but from all Americans

Spoken like a true Jahaliya. This after cheating Allah S.W.T. of his dues. 2.5% instead of Ushr!

And since you believe that Hazarat Ali was an Imam, Ameerul Momineen, which translates into leader of the believers, what good would it be to accept him as such, if you did not follow his commands? Allah says: Obey Allah, Obey the Apostle and Obey the Ulil Amr. So just to spite the Ismailis, you will say you do not obey Ali, or in your heart you do believe in Ali, who ate grains and passed gas too! You are a poor excuse of a human being whose head has been misplaced at the other end.

It is good to know, after all the denials, you came out with your belief in Ali! Remember Ali A.S. and not R.A. which your sidekick believes! May be you can share your knowledge with him!

As for your ignorant claim that Barack Hussain Obama will get 30% from all Americans, you have not even studied his plan. Anway, you have nothing to worry about, because your food stamps and welfar package + your pills to treat your psychosis (you claimed in this forum 2 years ago that you take these pills) will increase under Obama's plan so you can sit on a chair, in front of your computer and make a fool of yourself in this forum and entertain Aarif and MF.

As for the learned Ismailis they just wave you off as a deranged, obssessive maniac.

[znanwalla]

When humankind is beginning to understand the wellsprings of human behavior, and it won't be long before we can begin to intervene to enhance or transform human life and when 'We can together speak for those who have no voice or leverage in society - for the poorest, the most despised, the least powerful, for women and children, for migrants and minorities; and even to speak together for the great encompassing reality that has no voice of its own, our injured and abused material environment', some are still struggling with their own 'Religious identity which has often been confused with cultural or national integrity, with structures of social control, with class and regional identities, with empire: and it has and is being imposed in the interest of all these and other forms of power and imposition reflecting on some medieval past !...zn

[Aarif]

Brother Aarif,

I am going to hold my response to your post in the interest of letting Znan's offer of peace prevail. Znan's offer of truce encompasses all that we all have done and used and said on this board and is still open. It is up to you to decide where we go from here.

Peace and Pluralism.

Pardesi,

I am surprised by the sudden change in your tone. A few days back you were calling me an idiot and a loudmouth who knows nothing about Quran. Now why suddenly this truce and brotherly love. Anyways you are the one who had started this thread to prove your point and I was only reponding to your posts directed against me. So please enlighten us on this sudden switch in gears...

[pardesi]

Brother Aarif,

I am going to hold my response to your post in the interest of letting Znan's offer of peace prevail. Znan's offer of truce encompasses all that we all have done and used and said on this board and is still open. It is up to you to decide where we go from here.

Peace and Pluralism.

Pardesi,

I am surprised by the sudden change in your tone. A few days back you were calling me an idiot and a loudmouth who knows nothing about Quran. Now why suddenly this truce and brotherly love. Anyways you are the one who had started this thread to prove your point and I was only reponding to your posts directed against me. So please enlighten us on this sudden switch in gears...

It took you this long to figure out the change in my tone? Anyways, I explained my "sudden switch in gears" in my post that you quoted above. To give peace a chance to prevail over everything and everyone. Unfortunately your brother rejected it mistaking our sincere offer of truce to be our weakness. And this is what Znan was stressing when s/he offered the peace deal to not take it as our weakness. Also please don't think that I have changed my opinion about you any! Its just that we are not going anywhere because you guys keep avoiding our questions and jumping like jumping jacks on every issue.

[pardesi]

But you are most welcomed to continue like your brother did.

[znanwalla]

Areef,

You guys a day too late and a dollar too short now !.....I was sincere and honest too in offering my reasoning....but you guys insulted me in return......you have insulted our Imam through sheer malice.....our opinions will never change about you - never !....but it is on record that we did invite you all to end this squabble even then....but it wasn't accepted....so now lets move on....zn

[Aarif]

It took you this long to figure out the change in my tone?

Pardesi,
I generally do not respond on weekends and hence wrote today. But as usual you have again not understood my question. What I am asking is why this sudden change after all the mud slinging??? You could have done this before starting this thread. But than you were too excited to prove your point. Actually it is the timing of your realization about this brotherly love which is forcing me to ask these questions...

As far as the thread topic is concerned I have already told you my stand point and that is not going to change...

[znanwalla]

Take your ruse elsewhere Areef....we are not senile ! we have to first lock horns give a good fight and then make an offer....it is logical....now lets move on !....had we done pre maturely you would perhaps made stories for which you are all so well known.....plus everyone knows that he showed respect for my decision or invite....I am the one who initiated it and they showed a respect for it....so cut you fairy tales......zn

[pardesi]

Pardesi,

......As far as the thread topic is concerned I have already told you my stand point and that is not going to change...

That is a right we all have. I respect this last sentense of yours. That is the beauty of Islam. We can all agree to disagree yet be on the same side. I have said this earlier somewhere that it is my belief that most verses in Quran are ambiguous and therefore open to individual interpretation so long as it has a positive affect on our lives and the lives of others around us. Our Imam has been putting a lot of emphasis on this point for many years and the focus of his work is not necessarily the Ismailis only but the aim is to also improve the lives of those we live amongst.

The problem arises between us when you guys show no respect for somebody's beliefs and start to defame it, its followers and the leaders. Our Imam, no matter how immaterial and how unimportant to you, is revered by Ismailis like a father. How would you like it if we try to defame your mother or father?

I believe both sides have a lot to offer if we let common sense prevail. If you show us respect, we will return the favor. Instead of arguing over ones beliefs, it would be fruitful and productive if we discuss and debate on issues of mutual concern.

The choice, I believe, is still yours. Not all is lost. We have decided to stay on the high road unless you decide to drag us into the mud with you.

[Muslim First]

Admin

Are you bannig my posts?

[Admin]

No. We will delete posts which are repetitive.

[Admin]

anajmi, we deleted your post. It is not relevant to the discussion.

[anajmi]

Admin,

You are deleting posts not because they are repetitive but because you want to curtail participation of certain participants. Ismailis and those whom you perceive to be wahhabis. If you think my saying this is irrelevant to the topic at hand then I will start another thread to say this same thing. As I have shown, I am keeping copies of my posts.

[Aarif]

Pardesi,

I absolutely have no problems with you following your faith in your way. What I expect from you and other Ismailis is honesty.. Your Imam maybe your father and highly respected in your community but that does not mean that he is flawless and specially created by Allah with his noor. I respect and love my father. But also agree to the fact that he is a mere mortal and will live and die like any other mortal human being even if he is next to Allah for me... We respect and adore many people in our lives but it is unfair to raise them to a level of a demi god and than try to justify that stand using scriptures that clearly tell you not to do so... I hope you get the point...

[Admin]

anajmi,
That we want to curtail participation is your assumption. We cannot do anything about it. We just want the discussion focused. You may start another topic if you want but please be warned that "funny" attempts to insult any group or leader will not be tolerated.

[anajmi]

First, it was - obscenities against leaders will not be tolerated. Now humour and sarcasm will not be tolerated. You are moving on the exact path I had predicted some time back.

[turbocanuck]

There is only ONE constant in this.........Ismailis will say they ARE MUSLIMS, the WAHHABIS will say they are not. this will go on forever, and ever, and ever, and.......... the solution is very simple.......lets leave it to Allah. When we die, on the day of judgement, HE and only HE will account for this. So for a Wahhabi to scream everytime an Ismaili says he is a Muslim,is not only going against GOD, but also stupid............

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Say: O disbelievers! (1) I worship not that which ye worship; (2) Nor worship ye that which I worship. (3) And I shall not worship that which ye worship. (4) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (5) Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. (6)

[feelgud]

THE LAST PROPHET AND THE QUR'AN
IN PREVIOUSLY REVEALED SCRIPTURES
---------------
Qur’an 2:146
Those unto whom We (Allah) gave the Scripture recognize (this revelation) as they recognize their sons.
But lo! a party of them knowingly conceal the truth.

Qur’an 5:15-16
O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)!
Now hath Our messenger come unto you, expounding unto you much of that which ye used to hide in the Scripture, and forgiving much.
Now hath come unto you light from Allah and a plain Scripture,
Whereby Allah guideth him who seeketh His good pleasure unto paths of peace.
He bringeth them out of darkness unto light by His decree, and guideth them unto a straight path.


There are many prophecies about Prophet Muhammad (s) in the revealed scriptures of old (Old and New Testaments, including those of the Zoroastrians and Hindus). The verses presented below give a small sample of references to Prophet Muhammad, Qur'anic revelations, Makkah (Bakkah), and Medinah. Because of the translations from original Hebrew to Greek to Latin to English, some of the words in the Bible refering to Prophet Muhammad (s) by name were translated. Prophet Jesus (pbuh) spoke Aramaic, a dialect of Hebrew. Therefore, it is recommended that any one with serious study in mind should make an effort to locate certain words and their meaning from Hebrew text. The references listed at the end discuss many more verses on this subject. Reference 3 includes Hebrew text for most verses cited therein
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/comparekjv.html

[Muslim First]

AW0000 wrote:

It is good to know, after all the denials, you came out with your belief in Ali! Remember Ali A.S. and not R.A. which your sidekick believes! May be you can share your knowledge with him!

My friend

I like to respond to your post and all others posts where you wish to engage me. My posts or responses are deleted by Admin. Should you desire open up a forum post your questions or comments and Inshah allah, I will respond.

So far I need to educate you on "Demented 5 pillars"

"Worshipping Shaitan by throwing stones", etc. etc.

How does Hz Ismail become Imam if he dies before Imam Jafar? You will never be able to give straight answer.

Yours truely

Sidekick

[Muslim First]

Br. Feelgood

You are telling people about Prophet SAW. For these people it is Ali that is all important. Prophets role was to just reveal Ali. For them it wal Ali that created big Bang. And They do not believe in Qur'an you are referring. So it is useless to educate them about Islam.

Wasalaam

I hope tis will be not deleted