Mumbai terrorist attack

[Right]

This is true,

The whole community is suffering, because of the wrong deeds done by few people.

[anajmi]

That is because of people like you who choose to blame the entire community for the wrong deeds of a few.

[jawanmardan]

Hussain KSA,

I must dispute your post. the Wikipeadia article on the "Hashshashin", lacks sources, I had made a couple of edits on that Wikipeadia article. it has been linked for clean up, and citations.

I would like to make three points.

First: the etymology of the term "Hashshashin" is in dispute; it may well refer to the use of hashish, or it may refer to followers of Hassan I Sabah. nevertheless "Hashshashin" was used by the enemies of the Nizari to refer to them, Nizari they refereed to themselves as al-da'wa al-jadīda (The new preaching), to contrast Fatimid "old preaching". Modern evidence does not support they used hashish, so I don't see why you thought to bring that up.

Secondly; Nizari of this period never targeted civilians, assassination was limited to political opponents. and Seljuq military did massacre Nizari civilians.

Third; Assasination has been around far longer than the Islam, or Isma'ilis, indeed Hasdret Umar, and Ali were both victims of assassination.

[znanwalla]

So was Imam Husain and other Imams of the Ahl al Bayt who were "assasinated" by the assassins and that too at the hands of these so called fake muslims ! the Hypocrites ! the murderers of the Prophet's family !......

" And those who implement the Command..." (Sura al Naz'iat).................." HE is the Omnipotent over HIS Slaves; HE Sendeth GUARDIANS over you..." ( Sura al An'am).

This World is a guided Reality ! it is only our Lord Allah - the exalted sends "natural guidance' - "instinctive guidance" and "creative guidance' and so there exists no conflict as it is ..." OUR Lord is HE Who gave unto everything it's nature and then guided it aright.." (Sura Ta Ha).

"Lo ! of the Covenant it will be asked.." (Sura Bani Isra'il)

" Truly the hearing and the sight and the heart - of each of these it will be asked" (Sura Bani Isra'il)

These assassins and butchers even killed Prophets and Imams !

"deteh hai Bhagwan koh bhi dokha...insan koh kiy a chorengeh yeh log?"


zn

[jawanmardan]

So was Imam Husain and other Imams of the Ahl al Bayt who were "assasinated" by the assassins and that too at the hands of these so called fake muslims ! the Hypocrites ! the murderers of the Prophet's family !......

These assassins and butchers even killed Prophets and Imams !

"deteh hai Bhagwan koh bhi dokha...insan koh kiy a chorengeh yeh log?"


zn

znanwalla, these tragic events have a spiritual significance which ought to be explored. However they should never become yokes around our necks today, or burdens we place on others.

The value of the study of history is in conveying how we came to be who we are today, not in justifying bigotry in the perception and interaction with others.

[Al Zulfiqar]

bro. jwm,

i support yr views. znan, are u a fervent shia, follower and admirer of ali ibne abitalib? then whose example are u going to follow? Ali's example or of those who came much later and stirred up divisive passions in his name?

when Ali himself did not take up arms or abuse those who rejected the call of the Prophet, who are you to curse them and stir up bitterness? when Ali himself did not dispute the quran which was then adopted why now come up with discussions that further divide the muslim ummah?

here we are talking about the terrorists who attacked mumbai. but if u reflect deeply, stirring up very deep passions in the name of the injustices done to ali and his family is another form of incitement and another form of indirect terrorism. agreed that the ismailies and the bohras and ishnashris in today's world generally do not indulge in actual violent terrorist acts, but going against the exemplary life and behaviour of ali to create hatred and bitterness is another form of fitnah. if we shias are better educated and more organised and practical, why not help the larger muslim ummah to see the errors of their ways wherever u see them occuring, unite and fight this evil?

the biggest enemies of muslims are the muslims themselves. daily examples of which are being provided here on this forum. holding others responsible for our woes is very shortsighted and naive. enemies attack when they see our house divided.

injustices against ali and his family are incontrovertible facts, but that doesnt mean we hammer more nails into our own coffins. the world is laughing at us. the jews have very cleverly reconciled their differences with the christians, the protestants and orthodox work in tandem for the most part. only we muslims are too busy fighting amomg ourselves like mad dogs. for people like our syedna this is of course welcome news, because then he can further internalise our issues, hide them from the outside world and re-inforce the 'us' and 'them' mentality.

[Al Zulfiqar]

just to add to the above,

3 generations of my forefathers have been closely involved with the sunnis. although they were devout bohras and shias, they never held back on their support and advice and freely participated in the tableeghi jamaats or other meetings at the jaama masjid in pune.

as a kid, i have attended such meetings with my father. i distinctly remember the tense situations whenever hindu-muslim riots occued in pune and the secret meetings in their masjids. at one such meeting where the sunni religious leaders, peshimams from various masjids and some prominent sunni personalities were attending and muslims were under attack, plans were being made to stockpile chilli powder, iron rods, chains etc etc for defense and strategies were being chalked out on how to attack the hindu processions deliberately routed through muslim localities. my father was bold enough to stand up and state the suicidal nature of this foolishness and the disastrous consequences which would follow. i remember his words, "kya aap paani mein rehker magarmach se dushmani loge?" there was a very awkward silence. and then he went on to outline how the sunnis could be helped by the goodwill and successful network of the bohras with the gujrati, jain business community, to help build bridges and prevent attacks from hindus. convinced, the sunnis went on to welcome the hindu procession on the outskirts of their localities, garlanded them and joined them, thereby taking the sting out of their hatred. this peaceful outcome went on to win the support of local hindu politicians and the police commissioner. my father quietly slipped away, unsung but content. in subsequent meetings he strongly recommended that muslims move away from vocations that exposed them to a hand-to-mouth existence, get into businesses, educate and avoid goonda gardi. subsequently many others in pune, sunni lawyers, doctors, builders etc got into the act, donating large sums of money and resources. today the sunni muslim community in pune is a model example to the world with their success.

i am not even 5% of what my father was, but i give freely of my time and meagre advice and support among sunnis, ishnasharis and others, as i attend their functions and masjids. i consider them all my brothers in an extended family. to deliberately refuse to help and hold back in times of need is a crime as a muslim.

[znanwalla]

"...when Ali himself did not dispute the quran which was then "adopted" why now come up with discussions that further divide the muslim ummah?...." ....

I have no problem with Sunnis either except some idiots...I have said openly that some of my best friends are Sunnis and perhaps half my family too is Sunni...does this mean we should be afraid to talk Islamic history as it stands? why?

What Quran? and adoption of what? and what did Ali agree to? that people follow conjectures and untruths? nah ! I am not a bigot nor do I seek dissent but if anyone attacks others unduly then they need to be reminded of their own behaviour and history....if for 1400 years these morons have not been able to unite, do you still think they can?...."Ali did not dispute" - I think you all should the sermons then and not letters to the governors only !...." Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are feebled and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah on his death..." So Amir ul Momineen says " I adopted patience although there was pricking in the eyes and suffocation and mortification in the throat"...." I watched the plundering of my inheritance.."

Amir ul Momineen adopted patience for the sake of Islam as he was making decisions from an enlighetened position and I suggest that you read his last and final discussion with the Prophet... not because Hazrat Ali had no dispute and certainly NOT because he agreed to the adoption of false texts and Ali has said that these texts have "many faces"....please read his sermons and the tafsirs of your own Imams instead of telling me I am causing fitnah ! I am not ! .......Yes! certainly kerbala does have spiritual dimension as Islam became glorified and more profound thereafter.....but once in a while I see no kharm in telling these beasts what they are worth so that they don't think they are pious God fearing good muslims when they are not....

[jawanmardan]

znanwalla,

if anyone attacks others unduly then they need to be reminded of their own behaviour and history....

If anyone attacks anyone unduly, they ought be reminded of its futility. Brandishing selective history is no solution. A more important and relevant historical lesson is that of Islamic Spain a culturally brilliant and exemplary state foundered by the ulmayyads.

Al-Andaluce and its capture by Christendom marked the decline of Islam, when Christopher Columbus (who witnessed its surrender) set out to the west, it was not to discover America, he explicitly stated it was to find trade routes to the east, to bi-pass the Islamic world, and to acquire gold to be used to fund a new crusade. Islamic Spain produced Averoes a brilliant philosopher, doctor, scientist who composed over forty compendium on anatomy, philosophy, astronomy, and man of reason, who built upon the philosophy of Aristotle.

Averoes's works were banned by Muslims following the fall of Spain, fearing that a rational approach to life would undermine Islam, and even in the west they refused to study him as a Muslim. The irony is that slowly western institutions began to adopt his study, he became the scholar par excellance in Europe, while remaining unknown in the Islamic world. The west built upon his ideas, the islamic world lost them. We can see the results 500 years later. Much soul searching is needed, why we are where we are today, and how to recover our glorious past.

[jawanmardan]

here we are talking about the terrorists who attacked mumbai. but if u reflect deeply, stirring up very deep passions in the name of the injustices done to ali and his family is another form of incitement and another form of indirect terrorism.

I would say its ignorance rather than terrorism, I would also say that most Isma'ili and all of our leadership explicitly are against it. I never knew it existed within my community until coming onto this forum, I can only surmise it emanates from the pointless arguments on this board.

agreed that the ismailies and the bohras and ishnashris in today's world generally do not indulge in actual violent terrorist acts, but going against the exemplary life and behaviour of ali to create hatred and bitterness is another form of fitnah. if we shias are better educated and more organised and practical, why not help the larger muslim ummah to see the errors of their ways wherever u see them occuring, unite and fight this evil?

Many ithna'Ashariyya are very poorly educated in India, according to anthropological surveys done. Sunni do much better. There are any different communities we should not make a monolithic judgement. Sunni Muslims from Mir Pur in England do terribly in school, those from the Punjab do much better perhaps as well as Hindus and Sikh.

Generally I think daily we all live apart, there is not much interaction between the communities on a daily basis. There is very little contact at the organizational level either which causes difficulties. When you ask "why not help the larger muslim ummah to see the errors of their ways", I believe that other communities can help another; but we need to establish a relationship first, of course as I do on this forum I can also express my opinion on matters, but it is ultimately upto Sunni scholars, or Isma'ili, or Bohra to reach decisions and implement them, as they have the legitimacy and community framework to do so.

the biggest enemies of muslims are the muslims themselves. daily examples of which are being provided here on this forum. holding others responsible for our woes is very shortsighted and naive. enemies attack when they see our house divided.

Funnyly enough I don't entirely share your pessimism (I understand where your coming from); I think Muslims are going through growing pains, terrorism is an extenuation of the introspective dialogue amongst Muslims, Islamic terrorism is a modern rendition of Islamist ideology, but moderate Muslims have also established a democracy in Turkey and have out done the secularists in running the country. A time will come when the west will learn to study Islam and and Muslims will do the same for the west. Intolerance and bigotry will become marginalized.

[pardesi]

The following is my two cents on the current issue. Nothing personal against anyone on this particular thread.

As big and sad a picture that has been drawn of what Ismailis are doing here in these forums, we failed to address a bigger problem or to see the even bigger picture. The Ismailis are not here to profess our religion to the hardliner/s. Nor are we here to tell “we are always right and you are wrong”. Every time we have tried to participate in a productive way, no matter what the topic is, we have been either shunned or attacked for our beliefs. Do you guys not agree with this. It has become so personal for them that they can’t stand to see an Ismaili talking sense on these forums.

It is not a war between the Ismailis and the Sunnis, rather it is a never ending tirade of one or two towards the Ismailis and they are using this website to further their agenda against Ismailis. Why are they not so hard towards the Bohra clergy when it is a well known fact that they have abused the followers using the Dai’s office and status. The Aga Khan in comparison does totally opposite to such an extent that you can’t even begin to make comparisons.

You guys also failed to take notice that we Ismailis made an offer of peace to these same people who bluntly refused to shake hands. I myself have cut short a discussion or debate and quit in the broader interest of respect for Islam and its religious personalities. I have also on several occasions put forth a condition for debate asking them to show respect for my beliefs and I will adhere to the same condition only to receive a blow in the back of the head.

From what I get reading the posts from JM and Al Zulfiqar there is only one option that we have and that is to shut up and lay down like what happened to the Bosnian muslims. They were the victims and yet they were disarmed and we know what followed that ill advised decision by the UN forced upon by Europe and USA.

One needs to go back and look for the reasons why us Ismailis confront them in the way that we do. All we ask is that we be accorded the same respect and freedom that the other side thinks of as their right to take away from us.

I believe I speak for all the Ismailis here when I say that we have always been open to a more civil discourse. It is only that the other side has decided not to. We are only playing with the cards dealt to us. Either we play or quit and we are not about to quit against these losers.

[anajmi]

Do you guys not agree with this.

No

It has become so personal for them that they can’t stand to see an Ismaili talking sense on these forums.

Seriously, man, when was the last time any Ismaili other than jawanmardan talked any sense? You are all a bunch of idiots.

You guys also failed to take notice that we Ismailis made an offer of peace to these same people who bluntly refused to shake hands.

ooooo so nice of the Ismailis. Do you want me to reproduce that offer of peace over here?

Here it is

Najmi,

I can respond to all this meaningfully ! but I suggest that you read my postings which I have just made in a couple of threads first and then decide once and for all that you still wish to lock horns with us or agree on a mutual truce for the sake of good order and Islamic Unity which is an obligation of every muslim !....think carefully ! and very hard pal ! ridiculing us will not take you anywhere nor ruffle us or rattle us - rather we may come back hard on you and which better sense dictates that we try and avoid....so the choice is yours now !

Mark Twain said, “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.” ....and against us your task is not going to be so easy as we will simply entangle you in a spiral web and which frankly I do not wish to !

Why is this truth so difficult for you to grasp, al "Dim" ? You leave no doubt when you abandon your one-liners learnt in .......I mean: how much sense can you put in someone who does not know that “cannot” is always ONE word?...do you get the drift?

I don't want enemies of islam to become the beneficiaries of this squabble as the Prophet would have never wanted this to happen because of us....am I making any sense as yet or not?.....so why don't you take the "high road" and we all chill out gracefully ?

Please do not mistake this as a weakness - maybe humility ! humility is an islamic ethic....but if you still wish to ignore me then everyone here now is reading and will know that it is not us who wish to create problems....I cannot be more open or clear than this Najmi/Areef !...zn

I spit on such a peace offer.

there is only one option that we have and that is to shut up and lay down

Please don't do that. If you guys shup up, who the hell is going to help me prove how stupid you guys are?

Now deal with these cards.

[pardesi]

Peace brother. That is what my islam teaches me. I would not spit a something that was offered to me in the name of Islamic ethics. Taking a swipe and calling it a knockout punch is sign of defeated and ignorance. One can not deliver a knockout punch if standing on shaky ground. I believe a christian once said Islam is the best religion. Unfortunately it is represented by unqualified and ignorant fools like you.

[anajmi]

Taking a swipe and calling it a knockout punch is sign of defeated and ignorance.

I am not calling it a knockout punch. I am calling it a swipe. That is why i want you guys to continue, so I can continue swiping. I am the swiper.

I believe a christian once said Islam is the best religion.

He wasn't refering to Ismailism. He couldn't get his hands on the hidden quran. He had to base his statement on the quran that is available. That should teach stupid Ismailis a lesson.

[pardesi]

Taking a swipe and calling it a knockout punch is sign of defeated and ignorance.

I am not calling it a knockout punch. I am calling it a swipe. That is why i want you guys to continue, so I can continue swiping. I am the swiper.

I believe a christian once said Islam is the best religion.

He wasn't refering to Ismailism. He couldn't get his hands on the hidden quran. He had to base his statement on the quran that is available. That should teach stupid Ismailis a lesson.

No one can teach us what we already know. His point was that ignorant fools like you have gotten hold of the helm of Islam, unfortunately. Swiper huh! Yeah right! Pull your pants up Anajmi, you are shaming us all.

[jawanmardan]

From what I get reading the posts from JM and Al Zulfiqar there is only one option that we have and that is to shut up and lay down like what happened to the Bosnian muslims. They were the victims and yet they were disarmed and we know what followed that ill advised decision by the UN forced upon by Europe and USA.

Brother Pardesi,
Without wanting to ruffle any more feathers, I personally believe the benefit of being Isma'ili is that we have a Hazah Imam, we are not bound to history in the same way the Ithna' Ashariyya are. The central role early historical conflicts and events play in Ithna Ashari discourse is not something we share. The Ithna' Ashariyya as a community are prone to greater emphasis on the early history then we are; their Imam has been in concelment for 1100 years, we have 14 centuries of Imamate and history all of which is equally important.

Religious discourse for the Ithna' Ashari community seems to an outsider like myself preoccupied with the issue of laanat on the first three caliphs or mourning rituals, I appreciate the passion plays of Iran, I think their beautifully powerful and moving; but there are so many other forms of celebrating pain and oppression it can often seem depressing. Not to mention the other Shah'adats / Wafaats. At one level I am able to appreciate the cultural significance of these rituals and I respect them, but it could never be somthing I could believe in because it would be a very painful dimention to religion which simply doesn't jig with me. We should of course acknowledge our history as Isma'ili, the painful and the glorious, but they should never dominate our spiritual discourse.

The war of words on this forum is one of choice not one of necessity. Hazah Imam would never want us to curse Caliphs, or retaliate to defend our faith, as our faith is based on spirituality, love, and reason, that which removes us from the ease of Khudas presence is to be avoided. Hazah Imam would want us to be at ease with your spiritual side and at peace with others, avoiding drawn out conflict.

If you feel I am being unnecessarily harsh i am only to happy to dialogue with you on a separate thread.

Peace

[SBM]

Anjami and Znanwalla
Can you please take your personal insults and personal fight to some other forum. None of you belong to Bohra reform movement nor to the traditional Bohra group
This forum was created to discuss the Dawoodi Bohra problems and not to discuss Ismaili/Whabai tirades.
You should create your own google group and insult each other and not dish the garbage on this forum
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

[znanwalla]

Oma,

I agree with you ! I have asked Najmi FIVE times now to move away from this forum but he is afraid to do so.....why is he so keen to hide here and abuse? baffles me ! I have said that if we shows respect we will do the same...but he is a coward as he is a "good" muslim after all.....I certainly agree that this is the Bohra reform group and so Najmi should not unduly derail every thread in this forum but unfortuntely he does this with impunity and throws abuse even when one tries to discuss meaningfully....I agree with you "Enough is Enough"....what else can I say brother?

[anajmi]

Oma,

I have said it before that I won't go until I want to or until the Admin bans me. If znan is so concerned, then she should stop participating. No one invited her here in the first place and I am not interested in debating with her here or out of here.

[Muslim First]

You guys also failed to take notice that we Ismailis made an offer of peace to these same people who bluntly refused to shake hands. I myself have cut short a discussion or debate and quit in the broader interest of respect for Islam and its religious personalities. I have also on several occasions put forth a condition for debate asking them to show respect for my beliefs and I will adhere to the same condition only to receive a blow in the back of the head.

Pardesi Bhai and JM

Instead od sitting on fence you should say that Qur'an which you can buy at Amozone.Com is only holy book for Muslim. If your MHI has a collection then bring it out. This canard has roots in SMS's Farman and either it is a lie. Ali RA was a Hfiz and knew where, when and why each Ayah of Qur'an was revelaed. Hz Abbas RA was equally proficient in/qur'an and lived long after Prophet SAW and Ali RA. He never said he was listnig or reading fake Qur'an.Fatemi Imams were incharge of Mecca and Madina for few yers. Never they produced Ali's Qur'an. 48 Fatemi Imams + one Pir (Hassan RA) come and gone. None of them have produced Tafseer of Qur'an or produced additional chapter of Qur'an.

This Ismaili Sister is Nuts.

If you or your MHI are 2 faced then we will respectfully point it out.

Take care.

[jawanmardan]

MF I have done so several times.

Please refer here for the first instance: http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... =30#p51942

If you wish to discuss it further, you or anyone else ought to start a thread in islam today. I don't believe this thread is appropriate.

[ghulam muhammed]

An article in kothar sponsored site mumineen.org :-

On the aftermath of the unfortunate terrorist attack in Mumbai recently, a Condolence and Prayer Meet was organized by the Maharashtra Police at Police Gymkhana on 30th November, 2008.

A delegation of Mumineen led by Zoeb BS and Saifuddin BS bin Shahzada Fakhruddin Saheb attended the event. The delegation comprised Kothar Mubarak Khidmat Guzars, Anjuman-e-Shiate Ali committee members and other Mumineen.

A Message of Dua and Condolence from al-Dai al-Fatemi, Syedna Mohammed Burhanuddin Maula (TUS) was read on the occasion. Honourable Deputy Chief Minister, Mr. R. R. Patil was presented a copy of Huzurala TUS Message which he received it with much respect.

Director of General Police Mumbai, Mr. A.N. Roy also acknowledged the participation of Mumineen in the event. The occasion was well attended by different religious communities, politicians and other prominent citizens.

[ghulam muhammed]

Article in MUMBAI MIRROR dtd 4.12.2008.

Cama docs pushed baby back in womb as terrorists attacked


Head of Nasrim Shaikh’s baby began to emerge when the firing was heard; she delivered 3 hours later

By Sudhir Suryawanshi
Posted On Thursday, December 04, 2008 at 03:43:05 AM


It was tough for Nasrim Shaikh, 28 to bear the labour pain. The doctors put a cloth in her mouth so that she stopped screaming
Nasrim Shaikh, 28, was in labour at the Cama and Albless hospital when the terrorists struck last Wednesday. She says her baby’s head had emerged at 10.00 pm, but after being informed that the terrorists had entered the hospital, doctors pushed back the baby. She finally delivered more than three hours later.

Shaikh says it was a tough task for her to bear the labour pain for a longer time. “I started getting labour pains at 9.30 pm and the nurses shifted me to the delivery room. Then we heard the firing and several loud explosions. I was scared and felt that I would not survive.

My labour pains were unbearable, and I started screaming. The doctor put a cloth in my mouth to stop my screams. But the baby’s head started to emerge. The doctors pushed it back to try and stall the delivery,” says Shaikh, who lives at Ballard Pier.

“The doctors and nurses stopped talking. Then, suddenly we were told two watch men were killed by the terrorists. The doctors and nurses switched off the lights.

The doctor injected me with a medicine and I fell unconscious. Later I learnt they barricaded the door with cupboards and benches. The terrorists felt the ward was closed, so they went away,” says Shaikh.

She says she cannot forget the day. “Everybody prayed to God that I deliver without any problem.

A watchman finally informed us at 12.30 am that the terrorists had gone and the police had secured the hospital. I finally gave birth to a girl at 1.30 am,” says Shaikh.

Suddenly a nurse shouted that the terrorists were still there. “My new born started crying and I immediately began to breast feed her to make her stop,” says Shaikh

“The hospital authorities discharged me the next day saying the terrorists may come again, please go home for your own safety. God heard the prayers of my relatives and the doctors, so I delivered safely. Otherwise, I would have not been alive,” says Shaikh in a choked voice.

Nasru Shaikh, 30, Nasrim’s husband says he is very thankful to God and everyone at the hospital who saved his wife and daughter. “I never imagined that we would go through such a situation. I just hope my child is not affected by the loud sounds of the explosives and the firing,” he says.

The doctors at the hospital refused to speak. However, Jayshree Kurdunkar, 42, a nurse who attended Shaikh’s delivery says, “We will lay down our lives for patients. I cried a lot the next day.”

[jawanmardan]

I never read about them attacking a hospital. Harrowing. have their been any major sectarian incidents in Mumbai? If anyone on the forum is out there I would apprecite knowing what the general atmosphere is like, whats on the minds of the Muslim community?

[SBM]

Quote By AZ
as for the solution to take muslim youth away from all these despicable acts, the key is education. all those involved in the mumbai terrorist attacks in mumbai were school drop-outs and petty thieves and criminals. the lone fellow caught is 4th class pass only.! so what can one expect from such youth who have no future and are easy pickings for sinister organisations?
Br. AZ
I am not a Wahabi nor an Ismaili, all I was doing was pointing that every time some thing happens, we right away become defensive and blame Islam.
Regarding your solution of education, most of the terrorist who were involved in London bombing were highly educated, doctors of all the profession, a life saver who took the lives of innocent people. Look at our own community Dawoodi Bohras, highly qualified and business minded but look how they are all brain washed by Kotharis. Many Muslim activists have been saying that lack of education is the root cause but after London bombing that theory is also been proven wrong.
My conclusion is that Many Islamic Scholars have spent too much time talking about life hereafterinstead of life here on earth and the fear factor that should be changed. Kothar is in business because they put fear of life hereafter like who is going to do Namaz upon your death and you will not go to Jannat if you donot believe in Aqa Moula and his teachings.
Enjoy the life and the world Allah has created for us to enjoy.

[jawanmardan]

Omabhati

I agree education plays an important role, but remember plenty of others including the 9/11 hijackers were studying in institutions of higher education. I believe the solution lies in tackling the ideology as much as eliviating poverty and providing education.

Muslims are often reluctant to admit there is a problem let alone set about finding a solution. Politically there is also the need to solve root causes Palestine/Israel, American occupation, and democratic accountability in the Islamic world.

Peace.

[ghulam muhammed]

In the aftermath of the 26/11 Mumbai attacks it is becoming clear that there are serious questions to be asked about what actually happened. The world’s media is also being fed a narrative that closely links the attacks, which have by now claimed over 200 civilian lives, with militants in the Punjab region of Pakistan, and they are largely failing to question its origins.

There are serious problems with that narrative.

Additionally, there are signs that India’s most vigorous investigator of terrorism was assassinated during the attacks, and may not have been killed by terrorists as had been previously suggested.

A powerful narrative is developing that is setting the stage for a diplomatic and, potentially, military confrontation between South Asia’s nuclear powers. As such, it is of extreme importance that information about the attacks is as comprehensive as possible. Yet key pieces of information are either been distorted or ignored, and a tale of Pakistani complicity is being hatched that threatens to whip up anti-muslim hatred in India and intense confrontation along the Indo-Pakistani border.

This is playing directly into the hands of the BJP and its affiliated Hindutva groups who seek to divide Indian Hindus and muslims, and are seeking to incite “revenge” attacks against jihadists. With elections fast approaching, the main Indian opposition party is looking to make big gains at the expense of Congress, and these spectacular attacks are the perfect ammunition to achieve this.

The pivot around which the developing narrative revolves is a young man named Azam Amir Kasab, only 21 years old and reportedly from the Punjab region of Pakistan. Kasab, who is being held by the Anti Terrorist Section of Maharashtra’s police, was captured after attacking the CST train station (where over 50 people died) and then the car of ATS chief Hemant Karkare. He was not a participant in the hotel attacks or the attack on the Leopold Bar, as far as we know, and these attacks were carried out by separate teams.

According to the Guardian’s Haroon Siddique, Kasab is alleged to have been trained in Kashmir by the Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-toiba. Information leaked by the ATS has it that the plan had intended to kill 5,000 people and to inflict “India’s 9/11” upon the nation while militants should “target whites, preferably Americans and British.” They were trained in marine techniques and, although Kassam strangely never made it that far, “planned to blow up the Taj Mahal Palace hotel after first executing British and American tourists and then taking hostages.”

It is not clear why Kasab decided to attack the train station before the hotel, or why he then chose to attack the police van in which Karkare was traveling.

Nevertheless, the leaked information continues, stating that Kasab and his colleagues, “left an isolated beach in Karachi for Mumbai on November 21 and were each given eight hand grenades, an AK-47 rifle, an automatic pistol and ammunition.” They then fanned out across the city, with instructions to “kill until the last breath.”

Two things immediately stand out for me from this tale. Firstly, Kasab is supposedly a footsoldier of Lashkar-e-toiba, yet Lakshar immediately disavowed a role in the Mumbai attacks. As the Telegraph newspaper reported on 27 November, “although the organisation strongly denied any involvement…the Hindu newspaper claimed three of the militants had confessed they are members of Lashkar-e-Taiba group” and media outlets around the world have mimicked this assertion ever since.

It is highly unlikely that Lakshar would take such pains to deny its involvement in such an attack, which does not mean that elements associated with it were not involved, just that the organization itself did not call for it.

What is also striking to me in this account is how poorly the terrorists followed their plan. Instead of 5,000 dead, a still horrific 200 people have died, but the scale of the tragedy could have been far greater. There was no successful explosion at the Taj Mahal hotel, which will survive intact. Kasab, as has been mentioned, did not even near his target and chose to improvise, for whatever reasons.

Then there are the instructions to kill British and American targets. 200 people have died, yet only one casualty was British, a “yachting tycoon” called Andreas Liveras, and he was actually a Cypriot emigre. As Liveras survived the initial attack on the Taj Mahal, and was able to recount his ordeal to the Times, it is possible that he was killed in crossfire between police commandos and terrorists. It is striking that there are no other confirmed cases of British people being singled out and shot because of their nationality.

Yet this key component of the narrative has been repeated constantly by the media. For example, the Guardian’s Gethin Chamberlain wrote yesterday that “It was in the Taj that a sinister new element to the attack emerged. Survivors said the gunmen were particularly interested in British and American guests, singling them out as targets and ignoring other nationalities.” Yet this did not happen, it would seem, or at least those singled out weren’t killed.

At the Cafe Leopold, many papers reported the account of sportswriter Alex Chamberlain. The Independent’s Andrew Buncombe quoted him as saying that “They told everybody to stop and put their hands up and asked if there were any British or Americans” but it seems that the terrorists soon lost interest. No British casualties have been reported from the Leopold.

This is a fascinating example of how propaganda operates. Virtually no-one has questioned the assertion that the attackers sought to kill British targets. Yet their behavior strongly suggests that this was not the case. Or, failing that, it suggests that the attackers were hopelessly inept or lacked the courage or will to actually carry out their orders. This jibes with the notion that they were highly trained killing machines on a mission to kill 5,000 people and as many foreigners as possible.

The vast majority of those who died were Indians, and the violence seems to have been more or less random. Moreover, we cannot yet know how many people died as a result of efforts to storm the hotels, and those efforts were reportedly extremely heavy-handed.

As an unnamed British official told the Telegraph newspaper, “[Indian commandos] arrived and went in guns blazing…It was blind. They didn’t have maps of the hotels, yet there terrorists had done enough reconnaissance to use the service facilities to manoeuvre.”

The ramifications of accepting this narrative at face value are profound. Within India, it means that the BJP gains a massive propaganda victory and will benefit in the elections. Communal tensions will rise, human rights abuses will grow and the position of muslims in general will deteriorate. Internationally, India may be locked more tightly into the the “war on terror,” tensions will rise with Pakistan, and support for the myth of an international jihadist threat will grow.

So we should be extremely sceptical of the information coming out of the Maharashtra ATS regarding Kasab. This is doubly the case given the context. The ATS has just lost its commanding officer, Hemant Karkare. The man who allegedly killed Karkare was none other than… Azam Amir Kasab.

Kasab is now reportedly refusing food, or being refused food. Bucking the trend of news reporting on the matter, the Economic Times reports today that “Since Kasab’s arrest, the police have been trying hard to get more information from him about his group, but he seems to be a tough nut to crack.” As one officer told the paper, “Neither is he eating anything nor has he agreed to reveal anything about his links.” But someone has managed to make him squeel… Or perhaps they have simply put the words into his mouth that they want the people to hear?

[ghulam muhammed]

The ATS in Mumbai is not the ATS headed by Karkare, which was dilligently investigating all forms of terrorism, including those instances perpetrated by groups on the Hindu-right or, potentially, those linked to American evangelical christianity.

It is an organization that has been beheaded of its leadership and has been subject to threats from all corners.

Directly before the attacks, the ATS leadership had been in India’s capital, New Delhi to talk with the government’s National Security Adviser about its investigations into Hindutva terrorism. Accounts of the meeting suggest strongly that Karkare and his assistants were slapped down by the government for doing their jobs.

As the Times of India reported on 26 November, the government feared the exposure of covert operations in Jammu and Kashmir, via the testimony of Lieutenant Colonel Purohit, one of those accused of carrying out bomb blasts in the town of Malegaon. The Times suggested that disclosure of such information could mean that the Indian government would “internationally face a major embarassment.”

Moreover, the same article reported that “What is also worrying the Centre is the disclosure made under narco-analysis by both Purohit and another accused Chaturvedi that non-Wahabi Muslims had taken part in the conspirary to plant bombs in Malegaon.”

In other words, the ATS was warned that pursuing their enquiries too far may expose the complicity of intelligence services, Hindutva extremists and the intriguingly phrased “non-Wahabi muslims.” The involvement of foreign intelligence agencies, and the role of operatives like the American evangelical Kenneth Haywood, may also be exposed.

The ATS in Mumbai had clearly overstepped its boundaries.

Karkare pressed on with his investigations, however, bringing five army officers into their crosshairs, all of whom were suspected of involvement with the Abhinav Bharat, the Hindu extremist group linked to the Malegaon blasts. Those officers, according to the Times of India, were “like Purohit, from military intelligence” and they shared a desire to respond violently to what they saw as dire threats to the Hindu “rashtra.”

Immediately prior to the 26/11 attacks, it was reported that Hemant Karkare’s ATS would “look more closely at the “political views” of some of [Lt Col Purohit’s] colleagues in the Army.” What would have come of such enquiries, we may never know. We may not learn any more about who really carried out the Samghauta Express bombing of a train travelling across the Indo-Pakistani border. Other dubious attacks may remain unsolved.

Hemant Karkare himself was reportedly feeling the strain that comes with truth-seeking. According to Karkare’s friend Julio Ribeiro, an ex Police chief of Mumbai, the head of the ATS called him the night before he died. “He came to me because he was looking for someone to hold his hand” Ribeiro told the Economic Times. Karkare was “bothered about the BJP, which had a well-oiled propaganda machinery and was running a concerted campaign against him.” Perhaps he had linked the recent threat against his life to India’s main opposition party.

He may also have been fearful of the consequences of pushing the Malegaon investigation forward. As Ribeiro reported, “Karkare had told him he had managed to get hold of a CD with additional information on the Malegaon case and he planned to confront those already under the scanner with these facts.”

There was no escape for Karkare who, according to friends, “had urged state Home Minister R.R. Patil to transfer him from the ATS.” Patil, presumably, refused.

But was Hemant Karkare killed for prying too deeply into covert affairs and, in the process, actually doing his job? Quite possibly. As soon as his death was announced, figures within the government of Maharashtra attributed his death to courage in the face of terror. The same R.R. Patil told reporters that Karkare “was heading home Wednesday when he learned gunmen were attacking the Oberoi hotel.” After hearing of attacks at the station, he “jumped in a jeep and rushed to take on the terrorists” before the same terrorists “shot him three times in the chest near Cama hospital.”

The initial story, as reported by the Times Rhys Blakeley, was that Karkare, “was shot three times in the chest as he led his men at the Taj Mahal Palace.” Karkare was portrayed as “[leading] his troops from the front” as he sought to storm the hotel and liberate the hostages. The Press Trust of India, from which papers around the nation take a lead, reported that “Karkare…suffered three bullet injuries in his chest as he was leading the offensive against the terrorists in one of the places the ultras had holed out early this morning.”

Yet since the initial reports surfaced, this version of events has been questioned. It seems that Kakare was shot while traveling by police jeep from the station to the Cama hospital. He was not foolishly marching into the hotel at all and he was not leading an offensive against one of the terrorist’s targets. He was ambushed, possibly assasinated, allegedly by the same Azam Amir Kasab that is linking the 26/11 atrocities directly to the Punjab.

The best source for information appears to be the testimony of one of the officers who was traveling in the jeep with Karkare but survived. As Arun Jadhav recounts:

When we were informed that Sadanand Date has been injured at the firing in Cama Hospital Karkare, Kamte, Salaskar and four constables left from CST to the spot. Five minutes later, two persons carrying AK-47 rifles emerged from behind a tree and started firing at our vehicle…The two terrorists then came up to our vehicle and pulled out Karkare, Kamte and Salaskar’s bodies out and threw them on the road. Thinking that we (Constables) are also dead, the terrorists then got into the car and started driving towards Metro junction…
This is extraordinary. Somehow, Kasab is supposed to have known where to intercept Karkare’s vehicle, hidden behind a tree and then opened fire. Another version of Jadhav’s testimony has it that “The militants waited in the shadows for the police van to pass, and when it slowed down in the narrow road, they sprayed it with gunfire…The gunmen opened the doors and dumped five slumped officers’ bodies into the streets, then piled into the van…” which is entirely consistent. According to this account, the police jeep was led to the ambush site by a car that “was seen speeding away from the [railway] terminal.”

As the AP’s Rajanish Kakade comments, “While they were searching for the gunmen, the gunmen found them.”

This looks like an assasination operation carried out with ruthless efficiency. It is an operation that the supposed attackers had no reason to carry out – it being well outside of their supposed remit and requiring extensive planning. Yet it is an operation that elements within the Indian army, Maharashtra state, BJP, intelligence services, far right groups, foreign intelligence agencies and “non-Wahabi muslims” had every incentive to execute.

We need to treat every claim made by a government regarding the 26/11 Mumbai attacks with immense caution. A poisonous, and unsubstantiated narrative is developing that justifies a multitude of evils. At the same time, investigations of terrorism are being compromised that would expand our understanding of what international terrorism actually entails.

[Admin]

GM,
Can you pls avoid posting long articles here. It's best to give links to them. Please use the posts for your own comments. Thank you.

[Right]

Brother Gulam Muhammed

In assassination of 3 policemen, there may be hands of some other people, but the terror attack is done by the Lashkar E tayba, and there is no second thought for the same.