MARRIAGE

[Danish]

What's the definition of "marriage" in the real world or a realistic view rather than a religious one? Would gays, lesbians, pedophilia, polygamy, polyandry, incest, etc., fit into the terminology/category of "marriage" given the notion that at least two (or more) "consenting partners" conjugate/copulate as family? What and where's the limit and justification?

[jawanmardan]

I believe marriage is a union between consenting adults, as you mentioned.

heterosexuals, and homosexuals (gay and lesbians) being recognized is fundamental within the real world, as marriage affords couples certain rights and responsibilities over one another, it is both practical, and a beautiful thing for one human to wish to take responsibility over another.

Polygamy, and polyandry (I'm not as sure about this one) prove less effective that monogamous couples, its a difficult decision as to whether they should be recognized or not, but only within the confines of curbing civil liberty. If we are speaking "practicality" here, these kinds of unions are not beneficial to either society, or to the individuals involved women in particular in polygamous relationships.

Pedophilia/incest are not consensual. They are mentally and/or physically unhealthy.

[Danish]

Great answer 'jawanmardan'. I agree with you 100%.

Would you opine that homosexuality, polyandry and polygamy is genetic (inbread) or bread by choice and circumstance? In case of polygamy and to some extent polyandry, married couples do tend to "cross the border" sometimes in their lives for whatever reasons.

In the case of homosexuality, would you accept upbringing of an orphaned, parentless or abused/sheltered child by the homosexuals or rather let the child be better off in care of orphanages? Tough questions I know but are there any 'godly' quranic answers or from Islaimic point of views?

[syed]

I believe marriage is a union between consenting adults, as you mentioned.

heterosexuals, and homosexuals (gay and lesbians) being recognized is fundamental within the real world, as marriage affords couples certain rights and responsibilities over one another, it is both practical, and a beautiful thing for one human to wish to take responsibility over another.

Polygamy, and polyandry (I'm not as sure about this one) prove less effective that monogamous couples, its a difficult decision as to whether they should be recognized or not, but only within the confines of curbing civil liberty. If we are speaking "practicality" here, these kinds of unions are not beneficial to either society, or to the individuals involved women in particular in polygamous relationships.

Pedophilia/incest are not consensual. They are mentally and/or physically unhealthy.

is this reply from a believing muslim's point of view or from a so called muslim to please the west ?

Quraan shuns homosexuality.. so much so that entire nations of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed... and you say that this a beautiful union between consenting adults??

this is an absolute transgression against the law of god and against the rights of humans as well.. men are made for women and vice versa... and by permitting men to marry men and women to women you are doing nothing but closing ways of humans to exist..


@ danish.

is fornication genetic(inbred) or by choice ?? give me answer to this and i will give an answer to your question about the nature of homosexuality

also explain how is the border crossed in polygamy ?? and define the border as well... (and also if the border is the one that has been defined by Allah or is it what you or society defined)

where does the upbringing of an orphan come in question from ??? how many homosexuals you know who give shelter to orphans ??

Regards
Syed

[SBM]

how many homosexuals you know who give shelter to orphans ??

Regards
Syed

In West this has become a big issue specially in the light of some Hollywood celebrities who are lesbian and have adopted orphans. One of the main reason of marriage in any religion was to continue the progeny of Human race in natural way. One of the reason a Muslim can have second wife was because the first wife can not conceive.
Things have now changed and we have artificial insemination and other ways of producing children.
ONE OF THE IMPORTANT FACTOR I ALWAYS WONDER REGARDLESS HOW ADVANCE THE WORLD BECOMES THE RATIO OF HETEROSEXUAL WILL ALWAYS BE MUCH MUCH HIGHER THAN HOMOSEXUAL AND IT IS CHILDREN OF HOMOSEXUAL COUPLE WHO BECOME TARGET OF ABUSE BY CHILDREN OF HETEROSEXUALS IN SCHOOL. I CONSIDER THAT IT MAY BE SELFISH ON THE PART OF HOMOSEXUAL COUPLES TO CONCEIVE CHILDREN BY ARTIFICIAL WAYS AND MAKE THEIR LIVES DIFFICULT IN SCHOOL
ONE SHOULD KNOW THAT CHILDREN IN SCHOOL CAN BE CRUEL IN MAKING FUN OF OTHER CHILDREN

[syed]

so your worries are just about taunting at school ?? its the entire life of those kids !!!!

childrens have a right to have good parents... and you begin by not fulfilling that rights...a child need a man and a woman to shape his life.. and not a pair of men or a pair of women !

well.. good beginning... so this results from the child being raised/adopted/artificially conceived by homosexuals... alrite.. so lets stop homosexuality !!

BTW west is corrupt in most of its beliefs and practices... so not much to say

Allah SWT the all wise had his plan of continuing the progeny of humans as u say, and homo/lesbian is against that plan.. simple

WBR
Syed

[danishwar]

I believe marriage is a union between consenting adults, as you mentioned.

...
Pedophilia/incest are not consensual. They are mentally and/or physically unhealthy.

how come you say incest is not consensual whereas homo or lesbians are with consent?

[jawanmardan]

Great answer 'jawanmardan'. I agree with you 100%.

Would you opine that homosexuality, polyandry and polygamy is genetic (inbread) or bread by choice and circumstance? In case of polygamy and to some extent polyandry, married couples do tend to "cross the border" sometimes in their lives for whatever reasons.

Brother Danish,
I'm sorry I was away for sometime theres a recession/depression so getting as much work in as I could this is a nature vs nurture debate.

Homosexuality is largely genetic, however things are not as clear cut as there is evidence that humans are by our "nature" somewhat bi-sexual, but it's effects are somewhat negligible in most of the population. Humans are also "largely" a monogamous species however we do have a tendency to occasionally wonder off. Polygamy and polyandry come from culture possibly as a means for society to control those tendencies, but even in cultures like Islam where polygamy is accepted, it has never been the norm, and is if anything composed of tiny population.

In the case of homosexuality, would you accept upbringing of an orphaned, parentless or abused/sheltered child by the homosexuals or rather let the child be better off in care of orphanages? Tough questions I know but are there any 'godly' quranic answers or from Islaimic point of views?

For me it's not a particularly tough question, I believe care, attention, love, and material benefits of being brought up by two stable parents heterosexual or homosexual must be preferable to being brought up in an orphanage. The well being of the child must remain paramount, which for me is what the Qu'ran asks from us.

[jawanmardan]

I CONSIDER THAT IT MAY BE SELFISH ON THE PART OF HOMOSEXUAL COUPLES TO CONCEIVE CHILDREN BY ARTIFICIAL WAYS AND MAKE THEIR LIVES DIFFICULT IN SCHOOL ONE SHOULD KNOW THAT CHILDREN IN SCHOOL CAN BE CRUEL IN MAKING FUN OF OTHER CHILDREN

Brother Omabharti, Perhaps then the problem is not homosexual parents, but rather the prejudice. It used to be the case that being mixed race in a school was met with abuse and still is in some parts of the world, should that have meant that people of different races were being selfish in falling in love and having children? Of course not, we must fight prejudice, not give into it.

how come you say incest is not consensual whereas homo or lesbians are with consent?

Incest amongst adults may well be consensual; but there is usually a psychological issue at play, including rape, abuse, and pedophilia, neither of which is consensual, further their is the great risk of pregnancy and severe deformities in children produced from such a union both mental, and physical, which is why it is a taboo; rightly so in my opinion.

I would implore both of you to take the time to meet and talk with a homosexual person, you may discover that there is not much that separates you but who you decide to spend your bedroom activities with, and to be honest thats likely to be a rather private matter for both of you.

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

Prejudice is a term that is loosely used. I am sure you are aware what the quran has to say about homosexuals and what it has to say about different races. A homosexual in Islam is a criminal. Now, laws on earth may not see it that way but that is how it is. Will you let a known murderer or a rapist in your house even if he has completed his jail term or "paid his dues to society" as they say? Would you consider that prejudice? Or just cautionary? Would you let your child be friends with a known thief? Now, I am certain that most homosexuals would be really good parents, but what would they teach their children? They will teach them that homosexuality is ok. And that, for me, is a problem.

[syed]

jawanmardan,

Prejudice is a term that is loosely used. I am sure you are aware what the quran has to say about homosexuals and what it has to say about different races. A homosexual in Islam is a criminal. Now, laws on earth may not see it that way but that is how it is. Will you let a known murderer or a rapist in your house even if he has completed his jail term or "paid his dues to society" as they say? Would you consider that prejudice? Or just cautionary? Would you let your child be friends with a known thief? Now, I am certain that most homosexuals would be really good parents, but what would they teach their children? They will teach them that homosexuality is ok. And that, for me, is a problem.

you stole my words.... cant agree more with you !!!

WBR
Syed

[Fatwa Banker]

Apparently crime is a word used rather “loosely” in Wahabism, you guys chop off limbs, stone people, and execute women in stadiums. Then again, these just violate l “laws on earth”.

You two need a sitcom like Mork and Mindy, except that we can’t have 2 Morks on the same freak show, so you need to find a Mindy.

Just one now…..not 4 !

[syed]

Apparently crime is a word used rather “loosely” in Wahabism, you guys chop off limbs, stone people, and execute women in stadiums. Then again, these just violate l “laws on earth”.

You two need a sitcom like Mork and Mindy, except that we can’t have 2 Morks on the same freak show, so you need to find a Mindy.

Just one now…..not 4 !

shows your lack of knowledge and your extra pinch of prejudice about Islam,

Laws on earth are man made, moreover you dont realize that men does not have enough knowledge to fix punishment for any crime, his justifications are limited, for example in case of murder some men may want an exceptional punishment to set an example and some may say this is against humanity, so we actually don't have any firm base to set punishments on, and then we become champions of human rights and deny what has been revealed. an example of that is you

bring forth on what basis you set punishment of crimes on earth, what is the basis.

but we do not expect you to have deeper knowledge since you watch Mork and Mindy so enjoy your sitcoms and your prejudices and you can have 4 Mindys also again provided you can do justice to all 4 of them, if not then have just one

WBR
Syed

[Fatwa Banker]

Mork,

You say

men does not have enough knowledge to fix punishment for any crime, his justifications are limited

If you admittedly don't have "enough knowledge" to fix punishment on Earth, should I believe you in "what has been revealed" for us in the hereafter ? Your justification for the Quran is "limited" by your own definition.

Please consult with Anajmi before you report back, as I will give you a free pass as a newbie, then I will slap your around silly like I do Anajmi.

All in good humor of course....

[anajmi]

Dear Brother Syed,

Leave the fart to me. Do not try to explain the quran or Islam to him. You shouldn't discuss any topic with him with any hint of sincerity. He isn't worth it. He is a fart and should be treated as such. Watch me and learn.

you guys chop off limbs, stone people, and execute women in stadiums.

Actually we don't. The fart is just being funny. Ask the fart what he would do, and he will tell you to drop bombs and kill a million. Doesn't matter if they are in a stadium or in their homes. Fart has "strange-love" for the bomb.

[syed]

Mork,

You say

men does not have enough knowledge to fix punishment for any crime, his justifications are limited

If you admittedly don't have "enough knowledge" to fix punishment on Earth, should I believe you in "what has been revealed" for us in the hereafter ? Your justification for the Quran is "limited" by your own definition.

Please consult with Anajmi before you report back, as I will give you a free pass as a newbie, then I will slap your around silly like I do Anajmi.

All in good humor of course....

hey MIndy
Stop being funny you girl...

Ok tell me how will you fix punishment for any XYZ crime only using your brain ?? i assume you have one.. being generous with you

and since your english doesnt seems to be good enough let me put it in plain words

my reply to your LAWS OF EARTH is that are without any solid base, so the only acceptable laws of punishment are the divine laws .. they are given because human understanding and judgment doesn't have any basis of law formation.

also stop watching too much tv and start reading about the laws of punishment to begin with... because once you read them you have a good chance to understand them and the reasoning behind them..
this certainly wont happen unless u stop watching mork and mindy.. ok ?

now i wont waste time writing them here unless i know what u will do with those after reading them.

hope you enjoy your MnM ,.. and again have 4 Mindys if required but be just with all 4 of them.. having them in a just marriage is better then fornication.. right ??

about slap me like silly.. well that's not civilized and do i expect you to be civilized.... well you at least have the benefit of doubt..

WBR
Syed

[SBM]

Quote
"LAWS OF EARTH is that are without any solid base, so the only acceptable laws of punishment are the divine laws"

So Mullah And Aalim syed
Can you please tell me what are divine laws for speeding on roads and running the red light on intersection? Which Hadiath
should the local law enforcement officialas should look for divine laws on punishment for the EARTHLY LAWS?
AND CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IS WBR

[syed]

Quote
"LAWS OF EARTH is that are without any solid base, so the only acceptable laws of punishment are the divine laws"

So Mullah And Aalim syed
Can you please tell me what are divine laws for speeding on roads and running the red light on intersection? Which Hadiath
should the local law enforcement officialas should look for divine laws on punishment for the EARTHLY LAWS?
AND CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT IS WBR

Oma darling, you are just not mature enough to understand these things, anyway i repeat my point, tell me what basis you have for fixing a fine for speeding and running the red light ??? how do you set a fine of 100 bucks or to impound the vehicle... what is the basis !!

we are talking about serious crimes and not their punishments, it is in those crimes where there are punishments set by Allah, and not about running the red lights... you are free for setting any reasonable punishment on these petty matters...

WBR = With Best Regards... i like that you ask what you don't understand... you show potential to learn..

so here we go

WBR
Syed