Shia men can rape thier wives every fourth night

[Biradar]

Here is what the new Afghan government passed as the new Shia Family Law:

"As long as the husband is not traveling, he has the right to have sexual intercourse with his wife every fourth night," Article 132 of the law says. "Unless the wife is ill or has any kind of illness that intercourse could aggravate, the wife is bound to give a positive response to the sexual desires of her husband."

So apparently Shia men in Afghanistan now have the legal right to rape their wives every fourth night. Hence, if they have four wives then they get to play out their fantasies every night. Of course, technically this can not be counted as rape as Islamic law does not recognize spousal rape.

Good example of "Have your cake and eat it too".

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first10 ... lize-rape/

[ghulam muhammed]

One fails to understand as to why these fundamentalist shias need to have such a law because they already practice MUTA (legalised prostitution) to fulfil their sexual desires.

[jawanmardan]

There's is no justification for it. However, if Afghanistan is to be a "democracy" then it is their democracy not ours. We can disagree to our hearts content - and that is the wonderment of a democracy.

Is he wrong? absolutely 100%.

However Khazai he is trying to get re-elected; the swing could be as little as 5%, there are those (10%) who agree with the law. His playing politics.

The UN forces should be out of there as soon as, although we should bare the following in mind:

Obama's plan to invite "moderate" Taliban into government, which is likely to bring in similar such laws for Sunni's as well. The strategy of triangulation cutting off Al-Qaeda and Taleban on the Pakistan border. New Russian involvement if it should occur (under their new military strategy and re-armament program). All this is more important to western administrations than how a woman is treated (or mis-treated) by her husband. This is realpolitik and the world of international politics.

[Muslim First]

JM
You need to stop reading Fixed News

[anajmi]

First, the law doesn't allow rape of the spouse. This is how enemies of Islam twist words. Now, I do not agree with this law, however the law is pretty clear. It says the women needs to agree. It doesn't say that the woman doesn't need to agree, but the husband can still force himself on her. Second, there is no punishment specified for a woman who might not agree to have sex with the husband. Now, if the husband wants to ruin his life by forcing his wife to do something she doesn't want to do, then he is welcome to do so. I wouldn't want to piss of the wife. Patience and restrained is advocated pretty much everywhere in the quran, plus, the quran asks you to treat your wife with respect.

004.019
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! It is not lawful for you forcibly to inherit the women (of your deceased kinsmen), nor (that) ye should put constraint upon them that ye may take away a part of that which ye have given them, unless they be guilty of flagrant lewdness. But consort with them in kindness, for if ye hate them it may happen that ye hate a thing wherein Allah hath placed much good.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! it is not lawful for you that you should take women as heritage against (their) will, and do not straiten them m order that you may take part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty of manifest indecency, and treat them kindly; then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it.

030.021
YUSUFALI: And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.
PICKTHAL: And of His signs is this: He created for you helpmeets from yourselves that ye might find rest in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Lo! herein indeed are portents for folk who reflect.
SHAKIR: And one of His signs is that He created mates for you from yourselves that you may find rest in them, and He put between you love and compassion; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.

The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was full of praise for virtuous and chaste women. He said: "The world and all things in the world are precious but the most precious thing in the world is a virtuous woman." He once told the future Caliph, 'Umar: "Shall I not inform you about the best treasure a man can hoard? It is a virtuous wife who pleases him whenever he looks towards her, and who guards herself when he is absent from her." On other occasions the Prophet, peace be upon him, said: "The best property a man can have is a remembering tongue (i.e. which remembers God), a grateful heart and a believing wife who helps him in his faith." And again: "The world, the whole of it, is a commodity and the best of the commodities of the world is a virtuous wife." Before the advent of Islam women were often treated worse than animals. The Prophet wanted to put a stop to all cruelties to women. He preached kindness towards them. He told the Muslims: "Fear God in respect of women." And: "The best of you are they who behave best to their wives." And: "A Muslim must not hate his wife, and if he be displeased with one bad quality in her, let him be pleased with one that is good." And: "The more civil and kind a Muslim is to his wife, the more perfect in faith he is." The Prophet, peace be upon him, was most emphatic in enjoining upon Muslims to be kind to their women when he delivered his famous sermon (Arabic: khutba on the Mount of Mercy, at Arafat, in the presence of one hundred and twenty-four thousand of his Companions who had gathered there for the Hajj al-Wada (Farewell Pilgrimage). In it he ordered those present, and through them all those Muslims who were to come later, to be respectful and kind towards women. He said: "Fear God regarding women. Verily you have married them with the trust of God, and made their bodies lawful with the word of God. You have got (rights) over them, and they have got (rights) over you in respect of their food and clothing according to your means."

A little search on the internet gives you a lot of information about how women are to be really treated in Islam. These laws, as jawanmardan has clearly stated, have nothing to do with Islam but with with politics and corrupt men - Muslim and Non Muslim alike. Karzai should be thrown out, but he is a western stooge. They will allow this law to pass and pay just lip service to the women in Afghanistan.

[salim]

very well said Anajmi.

[jawanmardan]

First, the law doesn't allow rape of the spouse. This is how enemies of Islam twist words. Now, I do not agree with this law, however the law is pretty clear.

Anajmi, I'm glad you don't agree with the law, but this is clearly legalising rape.

It says the women needs to agree. It doesn't say that the woman doesn't need to agree, but the husband can still force himself on her.

If as you say the women agrees it's consensual, therefore their is no need for a law. If a man husband, or not forces himself onto a women, it's rape and his a rapist.

Second, there is no punishment specified for a woman who might not agree to have sex with the husband.

Punishment or not, after being violated, and enduring the trauma of rape the woman has no recourse to seek justice through the legal system, worse still she must live with the demented societal view that shes the offender, not the victim that she is.

Now, if the husband wants to ruin his life by forcing his wife to do something she doesn't want to do, then he is welcome to do so. I wouldn't want to piss of the wife.

This isn't like telling your wife shes put on a few extra pounds, or spilling a drink on her fabulous new dress. Its a violent act that traumaises both the body and the mind which she will have to live with for the rest of her life.

[jawanmardan]

JM
You need to stop reading Fixed News

Lap it up Olive Oil!

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

You are right. I agree with you. However, how many cases do you know of where a women was severly traumatized after having being "raped" by the husband? I believe that between a husband and wife, things do not come to a "traumatizing" rape. The wife may not want to have sex and the husband might force her to. They may be angry with each other for a few days and fight. But that will be it. Unless the wife hates the husband. Then she can get a divorce, as the rest of that Afghani law specifies.

[anajmi]

Just wanted to make one correction - Things wouldn't come to a traumatizing rape unless both the husband and the wife hate each other. Then, they can get a divorce.

[Fatwa Banker]

Anajmi,

You forgot to quote this gem:

4.34: As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly).

[anajmi]

That is for women like yourself. It should say - beat the shit out of them.

[jawanmardan]

... how many cases do you know of where a women was severly traumatized after having being "raped" by the husband?

Personally none, but I also I don't know any domestic gun shot victims, whether your shot by your wife or a stranger its still a gun shot.

I believe that between a husband and wife, things do not come to a "traumatizing" rape. The wife may not want to have sex and the husband might force her to.

"trauma" can take on different forms, for different victims, some women only realise the ramifications years after the event. Domestic rape is often accompanied by domestic violence and abuse that goes on for years, this says nothing about the effect it has on children.

They may be angry with each other for a few days and fight. But that will be it.

Only in the most dysfunctional relationships.

...Unless the wife hates the husband. Then she can get a divorce, as the rest of that Afghani law specifies...Things wouldn't come to a traumatizing rape unless both the husband and the wife hate each other. Then, they can get a divorce.

You'll be surprised by how many women in violent relationships "love" their husbands despite years of abuse. the difficulties for women to initiate divorce in societies like Afghanistan are apparent to most, let alone finding employment and security.

And heres the worrying aspect; the message this sends to women and men in Afghan society, that this is normal and healthy behavior.

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

Personally none, but I also I don't know any domestic gun shot victims, whether your shot by your wife or a stranger its still a gun shot.

I have no idea how to answer that question. Next question you will raise is - how is having sex with your wife different from having sex with the neighbours wife? I do not know anyone who wants to have sex with the neighbours wife!!

"trauma" can take on different forms, Domestic rape is often accompanied by domestic violence

Well, then get a divorce. If possible, get a divorce before the children get affected.

Only in the most dysfunctional relationships.

So you want a normal husband and wife to continue fighting as long as they live after a "rape"? Hopefully, you are not a marraige counselor.

You'll be surprised by how many women in violent relationships "love" their husbands despite years of abuse. the difficulties for women to initiate divorce in societies like Afghanistan are apparent to most, let alone finding employment and security.

And heres the worrying aspect; the message this sends to women and men in Afghan society, that this is normal and healthy behavior.

First, if the message this sends is that it is normal and healthy behaviour, then they probably won't object. And if they don't object, then it won't be rape anymore. Problem solved. Second, if you don't "love" your husband, get a divorce. If it is difficult to get a divorce, then just let him have sex every fourth day. He will have no more reason to abuse you and you can go on living a normal and healthy life. Problem solved. If the husband is crazy and still needs to "rape" you even though you give him your consent, then consider yourselves to be a kinky couple and do what a kinky couple would do. Problem solved. And if you are still not satisfied, then for God's sake, get a freaking divorce!!

[jawanmardan]

I have no idea how to answer that question. Next question you will raise is - how is having sex with your wife different from having sex with the neighbours wife?

Your quoting me out of context; my point is rape is a violent crime like any other, homicide, battery, man-slaughter it doesn't make it anymore acceptable or tolerable, if the perpetrator is a spouse.

I do not know anyone who wants to have sex with the neighbours wife!!

It's apparent your not aquatinted with one Mr brad Pitt's neighbor.

So you want a normal husband and wife to continue fighting as long as they live after a "rape"? Hopefully, you are not a marraige counselor.

Once again your quoting me out of context; my point is that rape is not something your have a tiff over and forget about, you don't seem to have registered how serious and heinous a crime this is.

It really doesn't take much of leap to understand why Muslim women suffer greater dis-respect than women in almost any other society, and have mad the most marginal progress in relation to women in other developing nations.

MF is under the impression this is propaganda that I have digested from Fox News. Heres a quote from Afghan MP Azita Raffat, representing Badghis province. “The law says it is the right of men to have sex — even by force. You can’t complain because they are husband and wife and this is the duty of a wife. This is the belief of all Afghan men.”

Kahzai drafted this law in secret and had it passed and signed without a debate, knowing how embarrassing it would be, causing uproar amongst the women MPs. All of which contradicts Muslim Firsts article from Islamonline, which shows the same journalistic integrity of Fox News.

Here are the absurd laws read them for yourselves:

The laws

Article 27 The age of maturity (and thus marriage) is 15 for boys; for girls it is when they have their first period

Article 132 The couple should not commit acts that create hatred and bitterness. The wife is bound to preen for her husband, as and when he desires. The husband, except when travelling or ill, is bound to have intercourse with his wife every four nights. The wife is bound to give a positive response

Article 133 The husband can stop the wife from any unnecessary, un-Islamic act. The wife cannot leave the house without the permission of the husband

Article 177 The wife does not have the right to the provision of maintenance by the husband unless she agrees to have intercourse with him and he gets an opportunity for doing so

Obedience, readiness for intercourse and not leaving the house without the permission of the husband are the duties of the wife, violation of every one of them will mean disobedience to the husband

One provision of the law appears to protect the woman’s right to sex inside marriage, saying that the “man should not avoid having sexual relations with his wife longer than once every four months”

[SBM]

This is what is happening in PAKISTAN by Taliban
Flogging of 17 year old girl in SWAT Valley
This is not the Islam I know....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqT-mVhiDuI

[anajmi]

Your quoting me out of context; my point is rape is a violent crime like any other, homicide, battery, man-slaughter it doesn't make it anymore acceptable or tolerable, if the perpetrator is a spouse.

You ARE out of context. You are equating violent rape with a husband's right to have sex with his wife. And even though you know of no one who has suffered this personally, you assume that everytime a husband urges his right to have sex with his wife, he is being a violent rapist she is being traumatized for life. Well, I guess now it is ok for the west to drop a few more bombs on Afghanistan.

It's apparent your not aquatinted with one Mr brad Pitt's neighbor.

I was being sarcastic. but you missed the point. And, I do not know Brad Pitt's neighbour.

I think this discussion has outlasted its usefulness.

[anajmi]

omabharti,

Why are you saying that punishment of that woman by the Taliban is Islam? Does anyone ever claim that the killing of jews by Hitler was christianity? That is the law of the land. If you don't like the law then attack the country and change the regime. Oh wait, the Americans did that already!!

[SBM]

Anjami
I think you do twist the facts. I was sarcastic in saying that it is not the Islamic values what we see on the youtube. the four men holding her is very un-Islamic (besides being flogging) how can two men who are not related holding a woman down they are non mehram what kind of Islam are they practicing?
and WHAT DOES AMERICA HAS TO DO THAT if it is not for American and other Europeans Muslims I think the whole Pakistan and other Muslim countries would have been ruled by BARBARIANS like Talibans and AL Qaida
What that video shows and the people talking are not talking about the law of the land BUT ABOUT TWISTED, ARROGANT AND IDIOT MULLAHS WHO USE ISLAM FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSE WITH THEIR OWN INTERPRETATIONS AND GIVE ISLAM BAD NAME

[salim]

Anajmi,

You forgot to quote this gem:

4.34: As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly).

Whats wrong with this Ayat, this is very feminist Ayat.

Allah asks the husband to FIRST admonish, then if she still disloyal "Refuse to share their beds" and THEN if she is still disloyal beat them "Lightly".

Would western culture do this? never !!! first proof of disloyalty is enough for the divorce settlement. It is very common in west to be disloyal to disloyal wife.

Allah wants human to live peacefully, he don't want people to get divorce for the first possible mistake.

[jawanmardan]

You ARE out of context. You are equating violent rape with a husband's right to have sex with his wife. And even though you know of no one who has suffered this personally, you assume that everytime a husband urges his right to have sex with his wife, he is being a violent rapist she is being traumatized for life. Well, I guess now it is ok for the west to drop a few more bombs on Afghanistan.

Rape is rape, a crime. A husband doesn't have the right to have sex with his wife, women aren't objects; their independent human beings. It takes two consenting adults. There's nothing divine about this law, it's simply barbaric.

[anajmi]

jawanmardan,

Be practical and don't get carried away. Why don't you introduce a clause in your community marriages that a husband will not have the right to have sex with the wife. Then see how many guys marry girls from your community. And I am talking about the good guys who prefer not to have sex outside of marriage.

[jawanmardan]

Be practical and don't get carried away. Why don't you introduce a clause in your community marriages that a husband will not have the right to have sex with the wife. Then see how many guys marry girls from your community. And I am talking about the good guys who prefer not to have sex outside of marriage.

It's not a question of practicality but one of treating women as human beings, not chattel. Almost every society on earth has come to understand that, including mine, so you see there is no need for a clause.

A criminal act against liberalism is being proposed as law by a state, thats what has garnered international ire.

[Biradar]

As Alim al-Awal Mulla Anajmi as said, women enjoy great rights in Islam. From the view of wicked Westerners these rights may seem like treating women as second-class citizens, but who are these Westerners to comment on the great and mighty religion of Islam? If Muslim women appear nothing but sex chattels and whipping posts (see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7984958.stm) for Muslim men's debauchery, so what? It is a right given to them by the Almighty Himself. Also, one must defer to the great knowledge of the alims on this board, no doubt gotten from reading translations of Yusuf Ali, Shakir and Pikhtal and the vast store house of the Internet. Never mind that actions speak louder than words.

[Fatwa Banker]

“the law is pretty clear. It says the women needs to agree. It doesn't say that the woman doesn't need to agree, but the husband can still force himself on her.”

In case someone is still wondering about the regressive nature of Muslims and Islam in general., look no further. I am serious, please read the above a few times, and if it makes sense to you, then you are a part of the problem.

“the quran asks you to treat your wife with respect.”

The Quran says “beat them (lightly).”

“I do not agree with this law”

That’s because the law is restricted to every fourth night, your views on this matter are clear, there should be no restriction as it is a man’s right.

“how many cases do you know of where a women was severly traumatized after having being "raped" by the husband?”

Same old and tired Islamic propaganda. Exactly who does a Muslim woman raped by her husband appeal to ? Mullah Omar ? The Saudi King ? Osama ? The Islamic courts ? This is the same BS reasoning given for the low divorce rates in Islam as well. It is a fact that Muslim rape and abuse victims do not come forward as the stigma attached to it by society...and I am not even referring to rape by your own spouse.

[Fatwa Banker]

Whats wrong with this Ayat, this is very feminist Ayat.

Allah asks the husband to FIRST admonish, then if she still disloyal "Refuse to share their beds" and THEN if she is still disloyal beat them "Lightly".

Would western culture do this? never !!! first proof of disloyalty is enough for the divorce settlement. It is very common in west to be disloyal to disloyal wife.

Allah wants human to live peacefully, he don't want people to get divorce for the first possible mistake.

Salim, I find your ignorance and chauvinism nauseating and offensive, there is nothing I can discuss with you. A closed mind is a wonderful thing to lose....

[anajmi]

It's not a question of practicality but one of treating women as human beings,

And desiring to have sex with a human being somehow makes the desirer a lesser human being? Asking others to deny their most basic instincts while at the same time pretending that your community doesn't need the law I proposed, smacks of your hypocrisy. How do you treat your wife with respect? Sleep at her feet instead of sleeping next to her? And if you want to have sex, then buy a doll instead of troubling your wife? What are you people smoking? If you guys continue to treat your wives with that kind of respect, the only society remaining on earth will be the Afghani society!!

Almost every society on earth has come to understand that, including mine

Oh please!! Women are treated like objects far more in these societies that you are talking about. But your hypocrisy won't let you see that. Or maybe it is ok in your society to have a bikini clad woman trying to give a guy a hard on so that he would buy the shaving gel that the woman is selling? I guess everyone in that instance is treating the woman with respect!!

fart,

The Quran says “beat them (lightly).”

As I said earlier, that is only for women like yourself. It should say - "Beat the shit out of them".

[anajmi]

http://news.rediff.com/interview/2009/a ... -obama.htm

Looks like these societies, every now and then, need to suck up to the wife raping muslims!!

[Fatwa Banker]

desiring to have sex with a human being somehow makes the desirer a lesser human being? Asking others to deny their most basic instincts

Yes it does because a real man controls his most basic instinct and desires to have consensual sex with a willing partner, unlike you and your ilk. The rest of us have evolved, but then again you don't believe in evolution either.

[anajmi]

with a willing partner

You mean your hand?

Real men like you are either eunuchs or satisfying their basic instincts with their neighbours wives. Obviously, you have shown that your wives are not from amongst your willing, consenting partners, but since you are real men, there is nothing you can do about it. And yes, you have demonstrated that you have evolved from monkeys, who don't get married and would do it with anyone who is willing.