The other side of TALIBAN.

[ghulam muhammed]

I reproduce below an interesting mail which I recieved yesterday :-

SHARIAH BRINGS SPEEDY JUSTICE TO "SWAT".

SWAT — For more than two years, Zubeda and Pari Gul have been seeking their right in their father’s property through the court system but in vain. It was only after the implementation of Shari`ah under a new agreement between the government and local Taliban that the two sisters finally got their inheritance. "We are very happy that we have got justice, though late," says a jubilant Zubeda, 25. She and her sister Pari Gul, 27, have been caught in a bitter legal dispute with their two brothers over their inheritance for nearly three years ago.

They ran from pillar to post to get their right, sought every legal and bureaucratic means, including the lower court in Swat, but not to avail. "We did everything possible to get our share, but could not," says Zubeda. "We used to appear on every hearing, but every time the defense lawyer managed to get a new date for hearing on different technical and legal grounds." When the Shari`ah courts were established under an agreement between the government and local Taliban, the two sisters instantly took their case to the Qazi (judge) in Mingora, the capital of the Swat valley. "This time, we did not need even a lawyer. I wrote a simple application and submitted to the Qazi court," recalls Zubeda. "It took only four hours. This is unbelievable for me, that a case can be decided within hours." Under the newly introduced judicial system, there is Qazi courts in Swat, Dir, Chitral, Kohistan and other NWFP districts. The courts decide civil cases within six months and criminal cases within four months. Swat was an independent state governed under Shari`ah until 1970 when then military ruler General Yahya Khan scrapped its independent identity. Locals say they used to settle their issues under Shari`ah, insisting that the enforcement of British laws complicated the situation.

Speedy Justice [/b ]The two sisters can not believe how fast they reached justice after a long, exhausting and expensive legal wrangling. "Qazi Sahib did not go through any legal or technical proceedures," says Zubeda. "He simply summoned our brothers, and inquired about details of our father’s property. Later, Qazi verified the details by some of our relatives who were also present at the courtroom," she added. After the two brothers admitted they had not so far given their sisters their due share in the inheritance, the judge ordered them to pay half the amount on the spot and gave them a deadline of three months to pay the remaining amount. Zubeda and Pari Gul have already received two cheques of Rs 500,000 (7000 dollars) each. They note that even if they were to win their case at the lower court, their brothers would have moved to the high court, and then the Supreme Court, and even after that they would have had the chance to file a review petition. "It would have easily taken some 10 years," Zubeda believes. She says that not only she and her sister who appreciate the Shari`ah justice. "The people of Swat in general are happy with re-implementation of the old judicial system. "We have nothing to do with politics. Neither Qazi Sahib asked me whether I support Taliban’s code or not. We simply want speedy justice."

By Aamir Latif, IOL Correspondent

[syed]

our friends on this forum will manage to find something to cry about this also .. lets wait for their posts...

WBR
Syed

[jawanmardan]

Syed,

I'm only too happy to oblige.

Zubeda and her sister should have gotten more, considering that as women they would be breaking the law by being educated and finding employment under Shariah law. Between 160 to 180 girls schools have been burned or bombed by Tehrik-e-Taliban, Another 500 were closed down since the peace agreement.

Not to mention murdering Police, civic leaders, and their families.

[anajmi]

Between 160 to 180 girls schools have been burned or bombed by Tehrik-e-Taliban, Another 500 were closed down since the peace agreement.

This is simply false propaganda. Which western power started these schools in the first place?

[Fatwa Banker]

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... =30#p57198

[anajmi]

http://dawoodi-bohras.com/forum/viewtop ... =30#p57198

[accountability]

how about living in swat and under taliban justice system. An electricain goes to a woman's home, next thing is flogging her in public. She does not need electricity restored.

[Al Zulfiqar]

makes u wonder who is committing illicit sex/adultery here if any. the girl alone at home while an electrician is sent by her father to repair something, or the 'islamic' men in her society whose imaginations are sick, vulgar and perverted..???

one suffering from jaundice thinks everyone else is sick..!!!!

[ghulam muhammed]

Honour crimes are neither Islamic nor honourable. They bring only shame to the perpetrator and his family and “honour” killings are murders of the most serious nature.

The Prophet Muhammed (pbuh) always sought to forgive those who committed sins in private and urged Muslims to conceal the faults that people had in their private lives, not publicise them or murder them for such errors. The Sharia is clear about these matters and if Muslims were properly educated concerning it, such crimes could be eradicated.

Horrific though they are, honour crimes are relatively rare in comparison to the 1 in 4 women in the UK today who are victims of domestic violence according to home office statistics. Sometimes this results in permanent disability or even death. This violence is not spurred by a desire to restore respect to the family but more often by alcohol, drugs, anger and a complete lack of respect for women. Many women feel unable to escape from violent relationships with insufficient support from family, the police or social workers.

Honour crimes can be eradicated from Muslim societies with education and the appropriate application of Sharia law. Unfortunately, secular law has repeatedly failed to deal with Western problems of domestic violence and these statistics are swept under the carpet whilst women in the West continue to suffer.

[Fatwa Banker]

Honour crimes can be eradicated from Muslim societies with education and the appropriate application of Sharia law.

Are you out of your friggin' mind or just ignorant ? What education are your speaking of under Sharia law ? Wasn't the Taliban Sharia enough for you or do you need less education ? Are you Ghulam enough to your twisted ideals to feel that secular laws failed where "appropriate application of Sharia law" can succeed ? Which planet are you on ?

I am sorry but I have no tolerance for apologists and enablers.

[anajmi]

And since he has no tolerance, he is going to fart some more and if you don't listen to him, then he is going to fart more each time.

[anajmi]

And after freedom and justice - American style - the last thing you have to worry about is repairing your electricity cause you won't be having any!!

[Fatwa Banker]

Incoherent waste of bandwidth, yet again.

By the way, if I don't have any electricity, neither will the immigration officer processing you immigration papers to extend your H1-B to stay in this country ! So keep the cheap oil coming

[anajmi]

It looks like you've had some experience with H1-Bs. More neighbours of yours?

[jawanmardan]

I'm in favour of Sharia law being introduced in marriages and divorce for Muslims who wish to go down that route, as a form of arbitration. However it should always remain subservient to secular law, to which appeals may be referred. We already have Sharia in banking in the west where Muslims have access to interest free loans, so this would be a natural extenuation of that principle.

However we must be careful, we can't have two legal systems acting in parallel; that would only act to fracture society in two and makes integrating Muslims into mainstream society far more difficult.

[Fatwa Banker]

Most divorces are settled out of court and simply filed; uncontested. It is also routine for a judge to ask for a cooling off period of arbitration before going to trial in a contested divorce. Not sure what Sharia law you want to introduce in secular societies as you can marry who you want as long as they are not underage and you don't marry more than once. Would you rather have pedophilia and polygamy ?

Sharia is not a set of laws, but religious beliefs forced upon others as law. It has no place anywhere, subservient or not.

[jawanmardan]

Fatwa,
The media likes it's Muslims hot-headed and "slightly" frothy mouthed. The reality for the vast majority is quite different, Sharia is a wide ranging legal system which under certain perimeters can in my view be beneficial.

Not sure what Sharia law you want to introduce in secular societies as you can marry who you want as long as they are not underage and you don't marry more than once.

To be clear I would not favour Sharia Law straying into criminal matters, what I'm advocating is its introduction to settle civil matters; marriage and trade disputes. It's simply a means for two parties to resolve civil disputes, freeing up the over-burdened courts, and accommodating the needs of communities.

Would you rather have pedophilia and polygamy ?

No of course not, pedophilia and polygamy are illegal under secular law, the arbitration process I am advocating would not allow Sharia to supersede secular law.

This wouldn't work in states like the US or France for legal reasons. However in other states like Britain which already has Jewish Bet-Din courts handling civil matters, or Canada which has granted legal status to Jews and Isma'ili, it's practical solution.

[Fatwa Banker]

The media likes it's Muslims hot-headed and "slightly" frothy mouthed.

I am not the media, and you need a thicker skin than that as the media tends to handle Muslims with kid gloves (“sensitivity”). The videos you are responding to are rarely broadcast in the mainstream US media, and they need to be.

The reality for the vast majority is quite different, Sharia is a wide ranging legal system which under certain perimeters can in my view be beneficial.

It is wide ranging in that it encompasses your very existence; the benefits I will wait for you to document.

To be clear I would not favour Sharia Law straying into criminal matters, what I'm advocating is its introduction to settle civil matters;

Sharia does not differentiate between the two so I hope you do further research before requesting it.

Britain which already has Jewish Bet-Din courts handling civil matters, or Canada which has granted legal status to Jews and Isma'ili, it's practical solution.

Again, one glaring distinction, Sharia does not separate civil from criminal. It is not a system civilized societies (and I am using the term loosely) can adopt. I am not picking on you JM, I know you mean well except that be careful what you wish for.

freeing up the over-burdened courts, and accommodating the needs of communities.

The girl that was whipped for having an electrician in her house would have preferred over-burdened courts rather than the needs of communities. Don't you think ?

[jawanmardan]

Fatwa,

I am not the media, and you need a thicker skin than that as the media tends to handle Muslims with kid gloves (“sensitivity”). The videos you are responding to are rarely broadcast in the mainstream US media, and they need to be.

A good example is the recent incident in Britain where about a dozen Muslim extremists protested British troops returning home, accusing them of being "baby killers" etc the protestors were nuts but the story became headline news, clearly twelve angry men who caused a disturbance didn't deserve to be headlines.

Again, one glaring distinction, Sharia does not separate civil from criminal. It is not a system civilized societies (and I am using the term loosely) can adopt. I am not picking on you JM, I know you mean well except that be careful what you wish for.

Neither does Jewish law, I'm not advocating it's wholesale introduction, nor Taliban type laws. We already have Sharia Banking which coexists with mainstream banking, extending it to civil disputes is at the very least worth looking at.

The girl that was whipped for having an electrician in her house would have preferred over-burdened courts rather than the needs of communities. Don't you think ?

Again I'm only in favour of it's use in resolving civil disputes; it's process rather than it's penalties.

[Fatwa Banker]

Sharia doesn't allow the choice of process versus penalties. The only Jewish country in existence has secular laws so your analogy is irrelevant. We can discuss what should a free media cover or not until the cows come home. Cindy Sheehan was protesting outside the Bush ranch with a couple of girlfriends and made news every night. Bad journalism is as biased as good journalism, and one must support the right to have both. Islamic law cannot be taken a la carte or wholesale or selective. Winner takes all.

I am still awaiting specifics about Sharia laws that you want to introduce that would not otherwise exist in a secular society.

[jawanmardan]

Sharia doesn't allow the choice of process versus penalties. The only Jewish country in existence has secular laws so your analogy is irrelevant. We can discuss what should a free media cover or not until the cows come home. Cindy Sheehan was protesting outside the Bush ranch with a couple of girlfriends and made news every night. Bad journalism is as biased as good journalism, and one must support the right to have both. Islamic law cannot be taken a la carte or wholesale or selective. Winner takes all.

I am still awaiting specifics about Sharia laws that you want to introduce that would not otherwise exist in a secular society.

I'm not inclined to open a media debate either, just to point out that the media in it's selective representation of the Sharia, has helped form the publics narrow definition of the term. Angry beaded men grabs attention, pretty white blond girls going missing grabs attention.

The point is that civil law can cater in certain secular democracies to minorities, without the necessity of wholesale adoption of religious law, That Israel itself a Jewish state has only introduced Civil Jewish law into its legal system while rejecting criminal law only goes to prove the point.

I'm advocating Laws that deal with marital disputes, and financial matters to accommodate the diversity that exists in the 21st century, I'm not advocating anything that would deprive anyone willingly or not of rights and values that citizens hold in liberal democracies.

[Fatwa Banker]

A society cannot exist with a parallel set of laws, or perhaps you are misusing the term. Nothing prevents marital or financial disputes from being resolved within the religious or community framework; it most often does for Muslims living in secular societies. They generally resort to the court system when that fails, so I don't get your justification for the need of a Sharia law. For that matter divorced Catholics planning to remarry abide by the rules of their Church prior to marriage so that it will be recognized by the Church.

That Israel itself a Jewish state has only introduced Civil Jewish law into its legal system while rejecting criminal law only goes to prove the point.

Your contention that the civil laws in Israel are "Civil Jewish Laws" is debatable.

to accommodate the diversity that exists in the 21st century

Are you then suggesting that Sharia has adopted this diversity ? Surely not.

[ghulam muhammed]

FACTS:

Indeed, women suffered immensely; they were the victims of every regiment, and the regret of all times, represented by many pages of deprivation, springs of sadness, they were deeply wronged, profoundly exploited in an unprecedented manner.

CHAPTERS OF SHAME:

It is shameful that humanity was not treating women as human beings. All past civilizations exercised various types of torture, injustice, defeat and oppression unto her.

Greeks described her as the poisoning tree, and that she is filth made of from the Satan's work, and that she is sold as a commodity.

Romans said she has no soul and, as a sort of torture they poured hot oil over her, and she was dragged down to death by horses.

Chinese described her as the painful water which takes away happiness, and that a Chinese has the right to bury his wife alive and, if he dies his family will be entitled to inherit her.

Indians described her as worse than death, hell, poison, snakes, and fire. The woman has no right to live after her husband's death and that she should be burned with him.

Persians permitted the marriage of the unmarriageable with no exception), and it became allowed for a Persian to sentence his wife to death!

Jews described her as a curse because she is the reason of seduction, and that she is dirty when in menstruation, and they permitted her father to sell her.

In Christianity: The French held a conference in 586 AD to determine if the woman can be considered as a human or not, does she have a soul or not? If yes, is it a human or an animal soul? If it is a human soul, is it on the same level or on a lower level to that of the man? They finally decided that she is a human, but she is created only to service the man. The English parliament issued a decree during Henry the 8th rein, the English King, which banned women from reading the new testament (the falsified Bible) because they are sullied (dirty).

Before Islam, Arabs used to hate her like death. She used to be buried alive, or thrown into a well in a very brutal manner.

WOMEN'S LIBERATION:

Allah sent Prophet Mohamed (PBUH), the mercy for all mankind. His attributes changed the face of the ugly history and shaped a new and an unprecedented life in humanity and in the entire civilization.

Islam came and ruled out: " … And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) in kindness" 2.228

Islam says: "….But consort with them in kindness" 4.19

Islam says: "… place not difficulties in the way of their marrying their husbands if it is agreed between them in kindness" 2.232

Islam says: "…Provide for them, the rich according to his means, and the straitened according to his means" 2.236

Islam says: "… Lodge them where ye dwell, according to your wealth" 65.6

Islam says: "…and harass them not so as to annoy them" 65.6

Islam says: "…and give women a share from what the two parents and the relatives left" 4.7

Islam says: "…seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery" 4.24

Islam says: " .. and unto women a fortune from that which they have earned" 4.32

Islam says: "… and bestow upon them of the wealth of Allah which He hath bestowed upon you" 24.33

Islam says: "…They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them" 2.187

Islam says: "…O my people! Here are my daughters! They are purer for you" 11.78

Islam says: "…then if they obey you , seek not a way against them " 4.34

Islam says: "…It is not lawful for you forcibly to inherit the women of your deceased kinsmen" 4.19

Islam says: " … nor you should put constraint upon them that ye may take away a part of that which ye have given the" 4.19

Islam says: " …Divorce must be pronounced twice and then ( a woman ) must be retained in honor or released in kindness" 2.229

[ghulam muhammed]

There are some cases where the testimony of a woman is valued above that of a man such as cases of adultery as follows:

... And as for those who accuse their own wives (of adultery), but have no witnesses except themselves, let each of these call God Four times to witness that he is indeed telling the truth. But (as for the wife, all) chastisement shall be averted from her by her calling God four times to witness that he is indeed telling a lie. [Qur’an 24 6,8)

[jawanmardan]

to accommodate the diversity that exists in the 21st century Are you then suggesting that Sharia has adopted this diversity ? Surely not.

Sharia is a legal framework, with various interpretations; so the question becomes; have Muslims recognised this diversity? I would agree we don't seem to display it, but historically we not only did so, but we were at the forefront, we need to rediscover that once more.

A society cannot exist with a parallel set of laws

I mentioned this before, I admit this causes me the most concern with my proposition, the question of how to apply the law equally based on the same set of values and rights for citizens, yet how to go about accommodating the needs of increasingly diverse societies, or even if we should do so at all.

In that respect I would welcome a level headed, yet honest public debate on this very issue; which I strongly believe is lacking in any contemporary society.

regards

[ghulam muhammed]

New Delhi, April 24 (IANS) The minorities in Pakistan's Swat Valley have been forced to flee as the Taliban have imposed a tax on non-Muslims, Pakistan Catholic Bishops' Conference (PCBC) president Archbishop Lawrence John Saldanha has said, urging the Pakistani president and prime minister to intervene.

Expressing concern over the government's move to allow the imposition of Sharia laws in parts of the North West Frontier Province, the archbishop said in his letter to the Pakistani leaders: 'We note with sorrow that your government has failed to take stock of the concerns of civil society in Pakistan in your decision.

'Christian, Hindu and Sikh families have been forced to flee because the Taliban imposed on them Jizia, a tax levied on non-Muslims living under Islamic rule,' he said.

The archbishop's letter was released here by the Catholic Bishops' Conference of India (CBCI).

After parliament had approved the measure, Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari April 13 signed the notification for enforcing Sharia laws in Swat and six other districts of the NWFP that are collectively known as the Malakand division.

'Besides jeopardising the socio-economic and cultural growth in Swat and Malakand, the decision has also given legal sanction to the diktats of the trigger-happy Taliban,' the archbishop's letter said.

The resolution 'erodes constitutional protections for minorities and women,' Saldanha, who is the archbishop of Lahore, said in the letter.

'Now minority communities in the province are forced to endure unemployment, intimidation and migration,' the letter noted.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20090425/81 ... to-fl.html