In any Society, if one has to progress and change with time, the community is urged to learn new languages and broaden their horizons. It has been documanted in this Global economy, one has to learn different languages instead of living in their small box. Even Shiv Sanikis realized that Marathi Manus is not getting anywhere when they pushed for Marathi Vigyan only and now encouraging Marathi Manus to learn English and other languages.
Even in foreign countries depending where you live, the Jummah Khutbas (the first one) is usually given in native language including Shia Community who do their Muharram Waiz in native language of the land so people can understand
But in DB, they are imposing Lissan-e-Dawat on children and adults who have no idea what it means, what is the idea, while people are learnig to broden their horion and get in next century, our leaders are bringing our community in a small box limiting their ability to learn and understand, how does this helps imparting knowledge on our young if they are specially from European and American part of the world, who else beside DB know Lissan-e_Dawat and how does it help commerce in Global economy?
Lissan E Dawat
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Mamluk-E-Syedna
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 4:01 am
Re: Lissan E Dawat
I completely fail to see any logic in your posting. You seem to be arguing against yourself. This is because of your biased, blindfolded view that "Learning Lisaan-ud-Daawat means forgetting all other languages that you do know and not learning any other languages." Aqa Maula (TUS) has urged us all to learn Lisaan-ud-Daawat so that we can understand what is said in Vaez and majlis -- he has not forbidden us to learn any other languages or abandon what we already know. Besides, you seem to be implying that one learns a language solely to help commerce in Global Economy. Boy!! Indeed, you do live in a small box!!! I urge you to get rid of your jaundiced perception / faulty assumption, and perhaps, you'll then "see the light."
Re: Lissan E Dawat
Well explain to me how does Lissan-e-Dawat increases your commerce in Global Market? I do not know what part of the world you live but children in Europe and America do have a terrible time understanding Lissan E Dawat. How many times on this forum people have asked to explain some of the words used on Abde websites.
What is the problem in giving Sabak or Waiz in English if you are in America, does not Syedna say follow the laws of the land and respect them and English is the language of UK and USA so why impose Lissan. What kind of business or job you are in, I would like to know how long would you survive with Lissan in your job or business unless you are one of the Khidmat Guzar working full time with Kothar.
What is the problem in giving Sabak or Waiz in English if you are in America, does not Syedna say follow the laws of the land and respect them and English is the language of UK and USA so why impose Lissan. What kind of business or job you are in, I would like to know how long would you survive with Lissan in your job or business unless you are one of the Khidmat Guzar working full time with Kothar.
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ozmujaheed
- Posts: 889
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:14 am
Re: Lissan E Dawat
I agree LissaneDawaat is misguided strategy !
However it is good that kids have additional cultural values but to use it for logical debates and Fiqh is flawed and it gives people of the subcontinent unnecessary advantage.
If kids in school are using a national language for science maths and reasoning then religion should be imparted in a language which they can consciouly appreciate.
At present my own kids listen in one ear and grasp 20% of the real knowledge and like parrots let the rest out the other. I treat Lisanedawaat like them learning Mandarin !
However it is good that kids have additional cultural values but to use it for logical debates and Fiqh is flawed and it gives people of the subcontinent unnecessary advantage.
If kids in school are using a national language for science maths and reasoning then religion should be imparted in a language which they can consciouly appreciate.
At present my own kids listen in one ear and grasp 20% of the real knowledge and like parrots let the rest out the other. I treat Lisanedawaat like them learning Mandarin !
Re: Lissan E Dawat
Lisane dawat is Bush English.Sometimes I believe Dai flunked out of the same University as Bush.
Re: Lissan E Dawat
If you see at Lisane Daawat objectively, it has nothing to do with Islam, or Shiaism, or for that matter even Ismailism. The Zabaan of Islam and Daawat is Arabic. Lisane Daawat is a bastardised hybrid of Gujarati syntax, with a persian script and with lots of words from Arabic Lexicon.
Actually, it is the language of the semi literate S*** zaadas and their family, which is being imposed on the rest of the community. If you observe carefully, it fulfills a very sinister agenda. Those who are familiar with or are forced to be familiar with it, are unable to understand Arabic, (which is not taught) and so are unable to read and understand the original sources for knowledge. It is not in the language of the common man, because he is usually familiar with it and its usage. So a hybrid language is forced upon, because, then abdes can neither read nor reason in a language they are not familiar with.
Additionally there are no long standing references in this language. Whatever is available is the creation in the last coule of centuries, especially the last two dais. So, again whoever is familiar with this language has access only to the propaganda spouted in the last few years.
Language is a way to control thought and the establishment has been able to use it pretty effectively. A very good critique of sinister usage of language is the book 1984 by George Orwell. Read it with the Bohra context in mind and you will understand the meaning of "Big Brother is watching".
Actually, it is the language of the semi literate S*** zaadas and their family, which is being imposed on the rest of the community. If you observe carefully, it fulfills a very sinister agenda. Those who are familiar with or are forced to be familiar with it, are unable to understand Arabic, (which is not taught) and so are unable to read and understand the original sources for knowledge. It is not in the language of the common man, because he is usually familiar with it and its usage. So a hybrid language is forced upon, because, then abdes can neither read nor reason in a language they are not familiar with.
Additionally there are no long standing references in this language. Whatever is available is the creation in the last coule of centuries, especially the last two dais. So, again whoever is familiar with this language has access only to the propaganda spouted in the last few years.
Language is a way to control thought and the establishment has been able to use it pretty effectively. A very good critique of sinister usage of language is the book 1984 by George Orwell. Read it with the Bohra context in mind and you will understand the meaning of "Big Brother is watching".
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profastian
- Posts: 1314
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:00 am
Re: Lissan E Dawat
Why not go furthur. Why not read Quran in English or pray Namaz in English. Why Arabic. Its even harder for the children to understand?omabharti wrote:Well explain to me how does Lissan-e-Dawat increases your commerce in Global Market? I do not know what part of the world you live but children in Europe and America do have a terrible time understanding Lissan E Dawat. How many times on this forum people have asked to explain some of the words used on Abde websites.
What is the problem in giving Sabak or Waiz in English if you are in America, does not Syedna say follow the laws of the land and respect them and English is the language of UK and USA so why impose Lissan. What kind of business or job you are in, I would like to know how long would you survive with Lissan in your job or business unless you are one of the Khidmat Guzar working full time with Kothar.
Re: Lissan E Dawat
br. Oma,
Lisane Dawat is arabised Gujarati which has a mixture of hindi, persian and english words. This is more of a language which is developed in a prolonged stay of Dai's in India, as you might well be aware that dawat in India started from Gujarat so Gujarati is the base of this language, as few others have responded that this language is developed in last 100 years or in last 2 dais time then its not the case and it has been in a developing stage for quite long almost since Molai Abdulla landed in Gujarat and took people to yemen to develop a common language to communicate.
The purpose of this language is not to make you aware of any worldly things or to help you in your global commerce but for people of the community to communicate with each other in a common language, for the sermons to be understood by the whole crowd.
Now as you have given example of other communities offering their Khutba's in English or the native language then we DB's are more of a centralized community where people tend to attend Syedns's Waez, or when waez is relayed all the people can understand. People in western world will be at handicap to understand any waez relay if they know only one language and not the common language understood my the masses(DB's)
If the kids cant understand the language then the fault lies on their parents as they might have started to talk in english at home just for the sake of looking a bit modern in the eyes of so called society or one reason that parents give is they want to teach english to kids,when we all know that its not necessary to leave your mother tongue to learn a new language, its a proven fact that people who know more languages are easy to adapt to new things and are more sharp then kids who know only one language.
Lisane Dawat is arabised Gujarati which has a mixture of hindi, persian and english words. This is more of a language which is developed in a prolonged stay of Dai's in India, as you might well be aware that dawat in India started from Gujarat so Gujarati is the base of this language, as few others have responded that this language is developed in last 100 years or in last 2 dais time then its not the case and it has been in a developing stage for quite long almost since Molai Abdulla landed in Gujarat and took people to yemen to develop a common language to communicate.
The purpose of this language is not to make you aware of any worldly things or to help you in your global commerce but for people of the community to communicate with each other in a common language, for the sermons to be understood by the whole crowd.
Now as you have given example of other communities offering their Khutba's in English or the native language then we DB's are more of a centralized community where people tend to attend Syedns's Waez, or when waez is relayed all the people can understand. People in western world will be at handicap to understand any waez relay if they know only one language and not the common language understood my the masses(DB's)
If the kids cant understand the language then the fault lies on their parents as they might have started to talk in english at home just for the sake of looking a bit modern in the eyes of so called society or one reason that parents give is they want to teach english to kids,when we all know that its not necessary to leave your mother tongue to learn a new language, its a proven fact that people who know more languages are easy to adapt to new things and are more sharp then kids who know only one language.
Re: Lissan E Dawat
Brother omabharti,
This topic has been discussed many times. I have maintained before that there is nothing wrong in using Lisan-e-dawaat as a language. It is just gujrathi written in Arabic script, with some Arabic and Persian words. It is important for a homogeneous community to use a common language. Our background, irrespective of where we live, is mostly Indian and our parents have always spoken in gujrathi or Urdu. To see conspiracy in every thing, including a language, is going too far and criticizing for the sake of criticizing. It is not a path to progress.
No one tells you not to learn Arabic or other languages. However, knowing Lisan-e-dawaat opens up a lot of literature written in the last few hundred years. Also, Lisan-e-dawaat is not a recent innovation. One of the greatest exponent of nasihat literature, Sayedi Sadik Ali Saheb, wrote most of his poetry in Lisan-e-dawaat during the era of Sayedna Abdeali Saifuddin, the 43rd da'i. He has written many beautiful nasihat. An example is at:
http://www.sautuliman.com/sp_edition_biradar.php
It is worth listening to. One can learn a lot from listening and reading his almost 54 nasihat. Let us not be in a hurry to dismiss and criticize everything about the bohras and lets at least make an effort to understand our own history and culture.
This topic has been discussed many times. I have maintained before that there is nothing wrong in using Lisan-e-dawaat as a language. It is just gujrathi written in Arabic script, with some Arabic and Persian words. It is important for a homogeneous community to use a common language. Our background, irrespective of where we live, is mostly Indian and our parents have always spoken in gujrathi or Urdu. To see conspiracy in every thing, including a language, is going too far and criticizing for the sake of criticizing. It is not a path to progress.
No one tells you not to learn Arabic or other languages. However, knowing Lisan-e-dawaat opens up a lot of literature written in the last few hundred years. Also, Lisan-e-dawaat is not a recent innovation. One of the greatest exponent of nasihat literature, Sayedi Sadik Ali Saheb, wrote most of his poetry in Lisan-e-dawaat during the era of Sayedna Abdeali Saifuddin, the 43rd da'i. He has written many beautiful nasihat. An example is at:
http://www.sautuliman.com/sp_edition_biradar.php
It is worth listening to. One can learn a lot from listening and reading his almost 54 nasihat. Let us not be in a hurry to dismiss and criticize everything about the bohras and lets at least make an effort to understand our own history and culture.