do you think that the raudat tahera should be demolished

[GreatBarrier]

Bro GB,

Can you quote some examples and show as to how you have been successful in influencing the fold ? It seems unlikely because you refuse to accept the high handedness and the tyrany of the corrupt establishment inspite of various incidents which have been quoted by many on this forum which are a solid proof in itself. If you yourself prefer to close your eyes and refuse to see their misdeeds then how can you influence your lot ? Please give a thought.

I have been as successful as you have been in changing anything with the Kothar by continuing your agenda! The difference is I tolerate their small irritating issues but overall I am happy to be part of the society, instead you call it tryrany.

Why I do so is because I look around and see even in my first world I hate paying taxes, my council and government could be corrupt and does not consult me when they buy warplanes but I continue living in it and continue paying taxes. So why do I expect anything less or more from Jamaat. I do not call Australia a tyrant state and hence Dawoodi Bohra is not a tyrant community.

You and I influence people who read this board if I provide a discussion which corrects statements and reviews so called facts I have influenced your thinking.

In the way I present my self to the community and Jamaat I influence their reaction to my suggestions and their treatment.

I am not looking at revolutions but evolution.

[Humsafar]

GB,
You're hung up on the word "tyrant" and trying to prove that the kothar/sayedna is not a tyrant. Well, maybe it is not. Actually it does not matter how you describe it. The point is that exploitation and corruption is organised, systematic and well entrenched in our dawat right from the very top. Exploitation of the community in the name of religion is not an aberration or things gone wrong or a one-off, isolated incident. This is systematic and organised. And this fact, this reality is at the core of reformist struggle.

Comparing a community with a country is disengenuous. When you pay taxes you also earn rights. This is a social contract between government and citizens - you pay taxes and government will take care of you. It is accountable, there are checks and balances. When the government makes a mistake citizens have the ability to oust it. Governments also use your taxes for "national defence" and may bomb other countries rightly or wrongly by invoking it. When enough citizens feel that the government was wrong it is defeated as it happened to Howard, Blair and Bush.

In our community, while you pay all kinds of taxes there is no accountability, you have no rights. When people in authority make mistakes there's no recourse for redress. There is just one law: take it or leave it. This is a kind of stuff that happens in totalitarian systems. You're being naive when you say "So why do I expect anything less or more from Jamaat." I haven't heard a more craven justification for corruption. Actually you should expect the same from your jamat and your government : honesty, integrity and justice. When they don't live up to your expectations you've a right to protest. When you are not allowed to protest then it is possible that you might be dealing with tyranny.

[Smart]

Why does every thread have to become a slanging match?

[Admin]

Smart, thanks for drawing our attention to it. We've deleted the offending posts.

[Al Zulfiqar]

it seems that the raudat tahera may go the way of the babri masjid after all. a historian who has studied the past history of mumbai when it was known as mumbadevi and parts of it were known as salcette, before the portuguese landed there in the 13/1400's, has unearthed some very startling and explosive facts.. !!

according to him there was an ancient hindu mandir dedicated to the mother of dashrath, the father of ram, in the exact same spot where the raudat tahera stands today. by analysing ancient archives from the deccan university and the asiatic library and rare records kept in the anterooms of the siddhivinayak temple in mumbai and the vaishno devi mandir in ambernath, there is clear evidence that such a mandir existed.

he has made demands for excavations below the raudat tahera and hopes to enlist the support of the vhp and rss and its political arm the bjp. let us see what happens next.

[East Africawalla]

AZ, From your utterings you seem to be happy if an extreme organisations go against the Bohras, just because you are against the 2 dais should not mean you lose any heart if our mohmeen are affected physically and econimically.

[Al Zulfiqar]

AZ, From your utterings you seem to be happy if an extreme organisations go against the Bohras, just because you are against the 2 dais should not mean you lose any heart if our mohmeen are affected physically and econimically.

eaw, can u pls explain here how the destruction of a monument dedicated to a tyrant will affect bohras physically and economically?

on the contrary, the breaking of the stranglehold which the dai's exercise over the bohras will lead to the economic prosperity and spiritual uplift and freedom of the bohras, dont u think?

[S. Insaf]

As per the tradition a Muslim/Bohra or Bohra Dai is normally buried in the nearby Muslim or community graveyard where he had died.
Sayedna Taher Saifuddin Saheb died at a place known as Matheran. But his son Yusuf Najmuddin brought his body from Matheran and buried it in a Jamatkhana "Qasre-Husaini" in the mist of the Bohra population in Bhindi Bazar instead of buring in a community's graveyard as all earlier Dais, Mazoon and Mukasir and other members of Dais family are buried. It was for the first time that a Bohra Dai was buried outside a graveyard and that too in the mist a population.
In order to convert that Jamatkhana land in to huge Mausoleum several buildings in the nearby areas were demolished. Huge Noor masjid built by Nooruddin Bandookwala was also demolished. It was only when the Bohra reformists raised a issue of demolishing of a mosque in the newspapers that Yusuf Najmuddin was compelled to construct a small air-condition Fatemi masjid near the mausoleum.
So much is enough to indicate the faithfullness towards Islam and Bohra Faith of last Dais.
Interestingly in a press conference in Bombay's Taj Mahal Hotel at the time inauguration of Rozat Tahera I asked a question to Yusuf Najmuddin that "You have spent more than four Crores on this marble Mausoleum over the dead body but you have still not fulfilled Sayedna Taher Saifuddin's promise to built a Technological Institute on the land of Daud Baugh, why?" To which he very cleverly replied that "this Mausoleum is built by the money donated by Bohras but that institute will be built by our money and naturally it will take time." Today even the foundation stone laid down by Dr. Radha Krishnan, then President of India is no where to be found.
So much is enough to indicate honesty and sense of welfare of the nation of Sayedna Burhanuddin.

[ghulam muhammed]

It was only when the Bohra reformists raised a issue of demolishing of a mosque in the newspapers that Yusuf Najmuddin was compelled to construct a small air-condition Fatemi masjid near the mausoleum.

I think the present maharashtra government has taken a que from the late YN because when huge cinema halls are demolished to pave way for malls, the owner has to compulsorily build a cinema hall within the mall premises which obviously is much smaller then the original hall just as YN built a small masjid which is much smaller then the original one to pave way for the large mausoleum. This way the cinema hall is retained plus the owner reaps huge profits by selling the vast number of shops in the mall just like the small masjid is retained and kothar reaps huge profits from the galla of raudat tahera. The maharashtra govt must be thanking him for giving them such a bright idea.

[East Africawalla]

AZ, You don't get it, there are thousands of people around the Roza whole livelyhood is dependant on this, BOHRAS TOURIST FROM AROUND THE WORLD COME OVER THERE AND BUY STUFF ETC.

[Al Zulfiqar]

AZ, You don't get it, there are thousands of people around the Roza whole livelyhood is dependant on this, BOHRAS TOURIST FROM AROUND THE WORLD COME OVER THERE AND BUY STUFF ETC.

if the roza gets demolished and a vaishno devi mandir comes up in its place, imagine the tens of millions of hindu tourists who would come compared to the lakhs of bohras. the bohras wud simply switch their business to selling pooja stuff, agarbattis, flowers, sandalwood, miniature moortis and other religious paraphernalia which pertains to hindus. of course the bohra shopkeepers wud have to make a slight change in their dress and instead of white std's just dye them saffron. a minor expense!

since yr argument is based not on religion or the non-existent spiritual greatness of the ex syedna, but purely on business, then on the contrary bohras will prosper, religion be damned.

in fact i wud seriously suggest that you buy up a few shops there yrself and take advantage of the potential boom. i have already started the process.

[East Africawalla]

sounds like a good investment potential according to you but Bohras will not be able to take advantage because its difficult to reconvert to hindus as already circumcised, you need another plan which ensures that Bohras brothers will profit and not the other community.

[ghulam muhammed]

sounds like a good investment potential according to you but Bohras will not be able to take advantage because its difficult to reconvert to hindus as already circumcised, you need another plan which ensures that Bohras brothers will profit and not the other community.

They dont need to reconvert because as it is, religion means nothing to them and it is just a tool to make money. They only need to wear saffron kurtas and use Burhanudin saab's bosom friends Narendra Modi and Bal Thakerey as their mascot.

[Al Zulfiqar]

sounds like a good investment potential according to you but Bohras will not be able to take advantage because its difficult to reconvert to hindus as already circumcised, you need another plan which ensures that Bohras brothers will profit and not the other community.

circumcision is no big deal. many educated hindus nowadays are also doing it for medical reasons. besides who would come and dare check them when they have photos of narendra modi and bal thackeray on their walls and are selling hindu religious stuff?

an inch more or less does not make a big difference.

umr daraaz mangkar laaye the chhe inch,
do khatanat mein kat gaye,
do misaak mein...

[ghulam muhammed]

who would come and dare check them when they have photos of narendra modi and bal thackeray on their walls and are selling hindu religious stuff?

The photographs should be the one which were taken when Burhanudin saab was shaking hands and draping a shawl on Narendra Modi, his bosom friend.

[East Africawalla]

The better proposal is to make some miracles at the Raudat Tahera for the Hindus thus get them to make it as a durga thus enhancing the value economically of people around there , they can then sell Bohras photos etc and the Hindus stuff as well.

This way we still look after our own.

[Al Zulfiqar]

The better proposal is to make some miracles at the Raudat Tahera for the Hindus thus get them to make it as a durga thus enhancing the value economically of people around there , they can then sell Bohras photos etc and the Hindus stuff as well.

This way we still look after our own.

so miracles can be manufactured? actually yr faith in the syedna to manufacture miracles isnt misplaced, because u do know of the wholesale production of them some 3 decades back, when several rozas incl. the raudat tahera started crying and tears, some of blood, oozed from their walls. wow.

did u know that the kothar has an entire deptt called " Qasm Al Aijaaz", which specialises in the creation of such miracles. the sahabe daawat appointed to this position is none other than the 'she' zaada qaid johar, who is well known as sahebe aijaaz. previously it was the well-known magician YN.

since yr suggestion is excellent, please send an arzi in hazrate aaliyah asap. perhaps u will be rewarded with a title of sheikh abulhoul, mkd, 10th dan muay thai.

[East Africawalla]

At least its a positive suggestion compared to your utterings which do not make sense, your suggestions in a kindergarden will win you a prize, its all hairy fairy but then we cannot expect anything more from a prat like you

[Al Zulfiqar]

At least its a positive suggestion compared to your utterings which do not make sense,

it will not and cannot make sense to any bohra like u who is brainwashed with constant maatam, majlises, and ghanu jeevo's....u see, their intellectual level actually drops and many of them exist in a vegetative state, their faculties completely atrophied.

but do not cry my son, just keep reciting this prayer everyday:

inna lil dai-e, wa inna dai-e rajeun....

[Al Zulfiqar]

wondering where that retard hypocrite agnostic eaw has run and hidden after his brilliant expose' of the kothar's ability to manufacture miracles.. ??

kya bhagi gayo eaw? back to east africa, maybe on the beaches of bagamoyo ogling the khanga clad beauties or participating in the hunt with syedna??

[Al Zulfiqar]

i thought maybe this should bring the hyper, foaming-at-the-mouth abdes back to earth with a bang.

a syedna who lived an immoral life, and without sanction from our deen and islam swallowed all community properties, was proven a liar and thief in court for stealing from the chandabhai seth galla, antagonised his followers and sought bogus worldly titles to further his material ambitions, should such a leader be decorated with a fancy mausoleum over his corpse?

a mausoleum built over the misery, tears and pain of his followers, forcibly evicted under threat of baraat, kicked out unceremoniously, built by heavily bribing corrupt municipal authorities and violating civil zoning codes... its more like a monstrosity to celebrate evil.

[Al Zulfiqar]

all those extreme abde fanatics who have overflowing love for their more-la, can you please do us a favor and divide yrself into 2 groups? one group immolate yrself in front of saifee mahal and the other group in front of raudat tahera,.

both are excellent locations to accept shahadat in the way of haq na saheb.

[Al Zulfiqar]

inspite of all their false bravado and chest thumping for their cult, all the fanatic abdes refuse to commit to a firm date when they will give their lives for their slave masters in front of raudat tahera.

what does this prove? that they are full of empty talk only. all flatulence and no guts.

[Al Zulfiqar]

what?? no abdes willing to give their life for this syedna and his father??? all cowards. just talk and no substance.

[Al Zulfiqar]

if the vile abdes can claim that calamities struck the japanese because of their ungodliness and not being blind followers of syedna, then what would happen if an earthquake struck mumbai and flattened raudat tahera or a bolt of lightning struck raudat tahera and razed it to the ground or a tremendous storm blasted it out of existence?

would that then be poetic justice to the memory of a man who was reviled by all and sundry?

[stranger]

Fatemi Dai is resting in peace in a costly marble mausoleum in the heart of city where as the fountain head of Fatemi Dawat Hazrat Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s grave is a symbolic heap of dust in the Jannat-ul Baqeeh graveyard. Which Islam are we following?

Mr. Insaf,
You are saying as if Saudi govt is welcoming us to rebuild the Moulatana Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s Zari & we are delaying it for some or other reason.

[Al Zulfiqar]

Fatemi Dai is resting in peace in a costly marble mausoleum in the heart of city where as the fountain head of Fatemi Dawat Hazrat Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s grave is a symbolic heap of dust in the Jannat-ul Baqeeh graveyard. Which Islam are we following?

Mr. Insaf,
You are saying as if Saudi govt is welcoming us to rebuild the Moulatana Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s Zari & we are delaying it for some or other reason.

stranger,

only a complete fool with an IQ of 32 would make such a statement that you just did. you have not understood zilch behind bhai insaf's profound observation. but am i surprised that an abde sympathiser of syedna would react the predictable way you did?

what bhai insaf is saying is this: with all the hypocritical love that the syedna and his father have proclaimed for the panjatan pak and esp. the issue of having a zari built for fatematuzzahra, collecting tons of phukat ka gold, silver and precious stones for it, how can they even contemplate building a grand mausoleum for themselves while their holy ancestor and daughter of the prophet from whom the shia sect supposedly begins, is lying in dust? if your illustrious parents are without even a proper kabr, would you build a gold palace over your own corpse?

all the abde rhetoric of flinging this "jau no aato" on reformists faces, is a mockery of ali, as if its too horrible a prospect to contemplate for your sultan, your shahenshaho ko shahenshah, maharajadhiraja, the supreme emperor, god on earth, just proves one thing. for all his crocodile tears on the fate of the shohodah and the cunning emphasis on purjosh maatam to make his followers stupid, dumb and ripe for looting, the syedna is a mere statue of dust. he has no guts, no compassion or compunction for those holy figures of islam. he can only preach, but not practice. all those who claim that he is greater than the imam, the prophet and even allah, please take note. all his life the syedna has lived like an arrogant king, he will go without food and eat jau no aato??? my foot! who cares if the grave of fatema is broken and desolate, the syedna must have a grand, ornate and extravagant tomb befitting his status. capeche'?

[guy_sam2005]

Fatemi Dai is resting in peace in a costly marble mausoleum in the heart of city where as the fountain head of Fatemi Dawat Hazrat Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s grave is a symbolic heap of dust in the Jannat-ul Baqeeh graveyard. Which Islam are we following?

Mr. Insaf,
You are saying as if Saudi govt is welcoming us to rebuild the Moulatana Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s Zari & we are delaying it for some or other reason.

Stranger,
Thats typical insaaf 4 u,on 1 hand he will say why masoleums for dead ppl.on other hand he will whine bout moulatena fatema zarih...............ask him to get permission from saudi autorities..we promise to make a zarih far better than any of the roza or zarih existing............................se now he will start cryin bout gold n expenses.....bechara aadat se majbur hai

[stranger]

Mr. Insaf,
You are saying as if Saudi govt is welcoming us to rebuild the Moulatana Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s Zari & we are delaying it for some or other reason.

stranger,

only a complete fool with an IQ of 32 would make such a statement that you just did. you have not understood zilch behind bhai insaf's profound observation. but am i surprised that an abde sympathiser of syedna would react the predictable way you did?

what bhai insaf is saying is this: with all the hypocritical love that the syedna and his father have proclaimed for the panjatan pak and esp. the issue of having a zari built for fatematuzzahra, collecting tons of phukat ka gold, silver and precious stones for it, how can they even contemplate building a grand mausoleum for themselves while their holy ancestor and daughter of the prophet from whom the shia sect supposedly begins, is lying in dust? if your illustrious parents are without even a proper kabr, would you build a gold palace over your own corpse?

all the abde rhetoric of flinging this "jau no aato" on reformists faces, is a mockery of ali, as if its too horrible a prospect to contemplate for your sultan, your shahenshaho ko shahenshah, maharajadhiraja, the supreme emperor, god on earth, just proves one thing. for all his crocodile tears on the fate of the shohodah and the cunning emphasis on purjosh maatam to make his followers stupid, dumb and ripe for looting, the syedna is a mere statue of dust. he has no guts, no compassion or compunction for those holy figures of islam. he can only preach, but not practice. all those who claim that he is greater than the imam, the prophet and even allah, please take note. all his life the syedna has lived like an arrogant king, he will go without food and eat jau no aato??? my foot! who cares if the grave of fatema is broken and desolate, the syedna must have a grand, ornate and extravagant tomb befitting his status. capeche'?

Az / Insaf,
May be i am fool with NIL IQ level and u r smartest person on the planet but could you please explain me a simple thing that On one hand you are concern and worried ab Zari of Moulatana fatema A.S, claim love and respect for panjatan Pak and On the other hand supporting and advocating her oppressers by calling them 'Hazrats' and etc etc ? Y sooo ?
May be Mr. Insaf can help you in this by making use of his profound observation.

and inshallah, Will revert u soon on statements highlighted in green...

[stranger]

Mr. Insaf,
You are saying as if Saudi govt is welcoming us to rebuild the Moulatana Fatima Zehra (A.S,)'s Zari & we are delaying it for some or other reason.

Stranger,
Thats typical insaaf 4 u,on 1 hand he will say why masoleums for dead ppl.on other hand he will whine bout moulatena fatema zarih...............ask him to get permission from saudi autorities..we promise to make a zarih far better than any of the roza or zarih existing............................se now he will start cryin bout gold n expenses.....bechara aadat se majbur hai

bro guy_sam2005,
Aamin.....Inshallah that day will also come.