Here are a few other things that can be said about God
Ar-Rahmaan
Ar-Raheem
Al-Malik
Al-Quddoos
Al-Ghafoor
Al-Kareem
Al-Majeed
Here is the link for the rest
http://www.jannah.org/articles/names.html
The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
If Lao Tzu had actually never talked about his Tao, people like porus would never have known about Tao and then it would've been impossible to talk about him. So herein lies the paradox. If the Tao cannot be talked about then how come we know about him? Someone talked right? So I would suggest that people stop talking about him. That way in a generation he will be forgotten about and then no one will ever talk about him. I think Lao Tzu is to blame over here.
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
anajmi,
its a telling indication about you, that on this topic alone, where there are a total of 30 posts leaving aside the actual topic starter, you have posted 14 times, almost 50%!!
what are you trying to prove...??? that you are more smarter, more learned, more scholarly, always right? why cant u leave well alone? agreed that u are persistent, passionate, highly informed, very well-spoken etc, but does anyone's piety have to be so much in everyone's face that it actually becomes a turn-off, creating more enemies than friends? this is definitely not the example of our great prophet or of any other prophets before him and this is certainly not what the muslim world needs and which is what is giving it a bad name today. the truly pious let their deeds and their silences speak for themselves.
all that u say about the quran and the hadees is admirable and highly commendable, but do not forget that the quran itself states that people have the freedom to arrive at their own conclusions by the exercise of their intellects and their common sense. it is the first holy book to recommend pragmatism in our approach to every religious and worldly issue in our attainment towards "godliness", and the prophet muhammad himself was known as an extremely reasonable and practical man, who won people over by patient wisdom, amiability and restraint. when he was admonished by god himself - "la ikraha fi ad deen", then who is anyone to force their opinion down someone's throat?
no one here doubts your knowledge, least of all me - a newcomer, who bows to your passion, but this continous hair-splitting is in no way helping your cause. just my humble opinion, take it or leave it but without any antagonism.
its a telling indication about you, that on this topic alone, where there are a total of 30 posts leaving aside the actual topic starter, you have posted 14 times, almost 50%!!
what are you trying to prove...??? that you are more smarter, more learned, more scholarly, always right? why cant u leave well alone? agreed that u are persistent, passionate, highly informed, very well-spoken etc, but does anyone's piety have to be so much in everyone's face that it actually becomes a turn-off, creating more enemies than friends? this is definitely not the example of our great prophet or of any other prophets before him and this is certainly not what the muslim world needs and which is what is giving it a bad name today. the truly pious let their deeds and their silences speak for themselves.
all that u say about the quran and the hadees is admirable and highly commendable, but do not forget that the quran itself states that people have the freedom to arrive at their own conclusions by the exercise of their intellects and their common sense. it is the first holy book to recommend pragmatism in our approach to every religious and worldly issue in our attainment towards "godliness", and the prophet muhammad himself was known as an extremely reasonable and practical man, who won people over by patient wisdom, amiability and restraint. when he was admonished by god himself - "la ikraha fi ad deen", then who is anyone to force their opinion down someone's throat?
no one here doubts your knowledge, least of all me - a newcomer, who bows to your passion, but this continous hair-splitting is in no way helping your cause. just my humble opinion, take it or leave it but without any antagonism.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Al Zulfikar,
Thank you for your concern. Do you know why the prophet was persecuted? Why he had to suffer a 3 year long boycott? Why he had to leave his city and perform Hijra? Was it because he said "la ikraha fid deen"? Was it because he said, "why should I force my opinion down somebody's throat"? Was it because he said "Let my deeds and my silence speak for me"? Was it because he said "I do not want to create more enemies than friends"?
If all muslims were to follow that logic, there would've been no trace of Islam left on earth. We would've all been Ismailis living according to the "realities of the world".
I post so much because I care and not because I want to prove that I am better than the rest. I just won't stand by and see people throw stones at what I and billions of others consider sacred. Keeping quiet maybe the better way to go but then, I have my faults. I like to show people if and when they are wrong.
Now as far as my cause is concerned, people like porus are beyond any help. As of now they are unworthy of the mercy of Allah and that is the reason they remain disbelievers. There is nothing I can do that can change that. But if there are others reading these posts, maybe, just maybe they might learn a few things this way or that.
Besides, you shouldn't take these things personally, you have been cursing and calling the Syedna and the kotharis all kinds of things and abusing them. According to your own logic, are you helping your cause? Should you keep silent and let your deeds speak for yourself?
Thank you for your concern. Do you know why the prophet was persecuted? Why he had to suffer a 3 year long boycott? Why he had to leave his city and perform Hijra? Was it because he said "la ikraha fid deen"? Was it because he said, "why should I force my opinion down somebody's throat"? Was it because he said "Let my deeds and my silence speak for me"? Was it because he said "I do not want to create more enemies than friends"?
If all muslims were to follow that logic, there would've been no trace of Islam left on earth. We would've all been Ismailis living according to the "realities of the world".
I post so much because I care and not because I want to prove that I am better than the rest. I just won't stand by and see people throw stones at what I and billions of others consider sacred. Keeping quiet maybe the better way to go but then, I have my faults. I like to show people if and when they are wrong.
Now as far as my cause is concerned, people like porus are beyond any help. As of now they are unworthy of the mercy of Allah and that is the reason they remain disbelievers. There is nothing I can do that can change that. But if there are others reading these posts, maybe, just maybe they might learn a few things this way or that.
Besides, you shouldn't take these things personally, you have been cursing and calling the Syedna and the kotharis all kinds of things and abusing them. According to your own logic, are you helping your cause? Should you keep silent and let your deeds speak for yourself?
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Originally posted by Al Zulfiqar:
anajmi,
agreed that u are persistent, passionate, highly informed, very well-spoken etc.....
all that u say about the quran and the hadees is admirable and highly commendable.....
More like the rants of a fanatical, raving, loony hot-gospeller!!
Christian bigots can be found preaching similar fire and brimstone bits in the Deep South of the USA, and the British tourists come to listen to them for a good belly-laugh.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Similar to what the kuffar have said in all ages. You just prove who you are. Next time when you break a promise, make sure it is worthwhile.
015.006
YUSUFALI: They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)!
026.027
YUSUFALI: (Pharaoh) said: "Truly your messenger who has been sent to you is a veritable madman!"
037.036
YUSUFALI: And say: "What! shall we give up our gods for the sake of a Poet possessed?"
051.039
YUSUFALI: But (Pharaoh) turned back with his Chiefs, and said, "A sorcerer, or one possessed!"
054.009
YUSUFALI: Before them the People of Noah rejected (their messenger): they rejected Our servant, and said, "Here is one possessed!", and he was driven out.
068.002
YUSUFALI: Thou art not, by the Grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed.
068.051
YUSUFALI: And the Unbelievers would almost trip thee up with their eyes when they hear the Message; and they say: "Surely he is possessed!"
015.006
YUSUFALI: They say: "O thou to whom the Message is being revealed! truly thou art mad (or possessed)!
026.027
YUSUFALI: (Pharaoh) said: "Truly your messenger who has been sent to you is a veritable madman!"
037.036
YUSUFALI: And say: "What! shall we give up our gods for the sake of a Poet possessed?"
051.039
YUSUFALI: But (Pharaoh) turned back with his Chiefs, and said, "A sorcerer, or one possessed!"
054.009
YUSUFALI: Before them the People of Noah rejected (their messenger): they rejected Our servant, and said, "Here is one possessed!", and he was driven out.
068.002
YUSUFALI: Thou art not, by the Grace of thy Lord, mad or possessed.
068.051
YUSUFALI: And the Unbelievers would almost trip thee up with their eyes when they hear the Message; and they say: "Surely he is possessed!"
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Al Zulfiqar
- Posts: 4618
- Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:01 am
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
"Besides, you shouldn't take these things personally, you have been cursing and calling the Syedna and the kotharis all kinds of things and abusing them."
anajmi,
as u must have noticed, i have stopped doing so, after it was pointed out to me by the admin. i do ponder over constructive criticism and try to correct myself. no one is perfect and neither am i. my rage was overtaking my sensibilities and responding to the abuse of the fanatics was demeaning the cause.
but showing hatred for those who differ in their religious beliefs is something which i totally abhor. let us look at the good that people
do rather than focusing on the manner of their beliefs.
i wish u well.
anajmi,
as u must have noticed, i have stopped doing so, after it was pointed out to me by the admin. i do ponder over constructive criticism and try to correct myself. no one is perfect and neither am i. my rage was overtaking my sensibilities and responding to the abuse of the fanatics was demeaning the cause.
but showing hatred for those who differ in their religious beliefs is something which i totally abhor. let us look at the good that people
do rather than focusing on the manner of their beliefs.
i wish u well.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Al Zulfikar,
On this board, I would like to focus of religious beliefs. Even you focus on religious beliefs. That is the reason why you chose to compare the Syedna with the Aga Khan and not Bill Gates who does more charitable work than either.
Now as far as showing hatred is concerned, when a person calls someone a sadist or a schizophrenic or a pedophile or an arsonist, that is hatred. Pointing it out as wrong and a lie is not hatred.
Now imagine if I were to call you a pedophile. Would that constitute hatred? I am sure your answer would be a yes. If I were to take it up a notch and call your father a pedophile. Would that be showing even more hatred? You bet. Now imagine how much hatred is displayed when you take it upto someone who is even more sacred.
So do you need more explanation as to who is the one showing hatred?
On this board, I would like to focus of religious beliefs. Even you focus on religious beliefs. That is the reason why you chose to compare the Syedna with the Aga Khan and not Bill Gates who does more charitable work than either.
Now as far as showing hatred is concerned, when a person calls someone a sadist or a schizophrenic or a pedophile or an arsonist, that is hatred. Pointing it out as wrong and a lie is not hatred.
Now imagine if I were to call you a pedophile. Would that constitute hatred? I am sure your answer would be a yes. If I were to take it up a notch and call your father a pedophile. Would that be showing even more hatred? You bet. Now imagine how much hatred is displayed when you take it upto someone who is even more sacred.
So do you need more explanation as to who is the one showing hatred?
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
The "great scholar of Quran and hadith" never tires of lying and putting words in the mouths of those on whose character assasination he wants to ride to glory on this message board.
I immediately rejected the hadith which reports the 50 year old Prophet slept with 9 year old Ayesha and invited this bigot to reject it too. Instead of rejecting it, he tried to explain it away, initially by saying American girls are maturing earlier and earlier and therefore they would soon be 'beddable' at 9. He then tried to make it out that the episode was something sacred that Prophet had done with God's approval. Then, finally, he turns the table completely and accuses me of calling the Prophet a pedophile. And all the time I had written that I had rejected the hadith. So who accepts that Prophet slept with a 9 year old?
Similarly, I had asked him to reject the hadith of Prophet wishing to burn the houses of those who do not attend prayer. In fact, Prophet wished he could be an arsonist. That is what they say. But they turn the tables and say "Look, look he calls our Prophet an arsonist." But, who accepts the hadith? Me or the bigots.
Regarding God, I had made my thinking very clear. God is uncreated and cannot be experienced by man. Hence, nothing can be said about God by any man.
Quran talks about God in completely contradictory terms. He is not like anything, and yet he has qualities that humans can readily relate to. They are all human qualities.
Compassion, Mercy, Anger are human qualities. The only differece between man and God is that God has these qualities in infinite quantities. Thus opposite qualities of infinite mercy and infinte unmercifulness all exist simultaneously in God.
The fact is that no one has experienced these infinite qualities. Yet believers insist God has them. So, God is human-like and any human with two contradictory qualities is schizophrenic. Hence scriptural God is schizophrenic.
God's infinite compassion and infinite mercy suddenly become their polar opposites for those he wants to punish on Judgement Day. So, again, two opposing qualities simultneously exist in God at the same time. That is schizophrenic. God will punish sinners "infintely" for the pleasure of justice being seen to be done. And all the time God had the power to change anyone's fate. So, God behaves like a bully who will not let his victim perform only those deeds for which he will get the pleasure of punishing the victim. Like a sadist.
Now, that is not my idea of God. My idea about God does not allow God any negative human qualities. I am describing God as scriptures (Jewish, Christian,Muslim) paint him.
This is too complicated for bigots. So, you can expect shouts of Kafir, kafir from them.
I immediately rejected the hadith which reports the 50 year old Prophet slept with 9 year old Ayesha and invited this bigot to reject it too. Instead of rejecting it, he tried to explain it away, initially by saying American girls are maturing earlier and earlier and therefore they would soon be 'beddable' at 9. He then tried to make it out that the episode was something sacred that Prophet had done with God's approval. Then, finally, he turns the table completely and accuses me of calling the Prophet a pedophile. And all the time I had written that I had rejected the hadith. So who accepts that Prophet slept with a 9 year old?
Similarly, I had asked him to reject the hadith of Prophet wishing to burn the houses of those who do not attend prayer. In fact, Prophet wished he could be an arsonist. That is what they say. But they turn the tables and say "Look, look he calls our Prophet an arsonist." But, who accepts the hadith? Me or the bigots.
Regarding God, I had made my thinking very clear. God is uncreated and cannot be experienced by man. Hence, nothing can be said about God by any man.
Quran talks about God in completely contradictory terms. He is not like anything, and yet he has qualities that humans can readily relate to. They are all human qualities.
Compassion, Mercy, Anger are human qualities. The only differece between man and God is that God has these qualities in infinite quantities. Thus opposite qualities of infinite mercy and infinte unmercifulness all exist simultaneously in God.
The fact is that no one has experienced these infinite qualities. Yet believers insist God has them. So, God is human-like and any human with two contradictory qualities is schizophrenic. Hence scriptural God is schizophrenic.
God's infinite compassion and infinite mercy suddenly become their polar opposites for those he wants to punish on Judgement Day. So, again, two opposing qualities simultneously exist in God at the same time. That is schizophrenic. God will punish sinners "infintely" for the pleasure of justice being seen to be done. And all the time God had the power to change anyone's fate. So, God behaves like a bully who will not let his victim perform only those deeds for which he will get the pleasure of punishing the victim. Like a sadist.
Now, that is not my idea of God. My idea about God does not allow God any negative human qualities. I am describing God as scriptures (Jewish, Christian,Muslim) paint him.
This is too complicated for bigots. So, you can expect shouts of Kafir, kafir from them.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Correction:
So, God behaves like a bully who will let his victim perform only those deeds for which he will get the pleasure of punishing the victim. Like a sadist.
So, God behaves like a bully who will let his victim perform only those deeds for which he will get the pleasure of punishing the victim. Like a sadist.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Porus and Anajmi,
ur debates are quite interesting but i think both of u are tryin to say the same thing....
Porus says that a human being cannot comprehend God, because God is uncreated and His ways are beyond the human intellect to comprehend....
n thats y Porus it wud be wrong of u to think that Quran contradicts itself when it says that God is most Merciful at one end while He supposedly "punishes" the sinner.....again wat is the reason to punish a sinner in Hell is beyond ur comprehension n mine...so lets leave it at that....human minds cannot comprehend the reason.....
ur rite when u say Quran is tryin to put Allahs attributes in human terms...cuz it is tryin to make us humans understand despite our limited abilities.....n doesnt say further cuz ofcourse we will not understand....so its not that the Quran is wrong or contradictory ...its jus that our minds have limitations.....
Sorri br zulfiqar..i had said that i wont praticipate in this forum...but i jus cudnt help....i will try to restrain with my posts as much as possible..if u or anybody feels my posts are below the intellectual standards on this forum...i request admin to delete my posts...thanks.....
ur debates are quite interesting but i think both of u are tryin to say the same thing....
Porus says that a human being cannot comprehend God, because God is uncreated and His ways are beyond the human intellect to comprehend....
n thats y Porus it wud be wrong of u to think that Quran contradicts itself when it says that God is most Merciful at one end while He supposedly "punishes" the sinner.....again wat is the reason to punish a sinner in Hell is beyond ur comprehension n mine...so lets leave it at that....human minds cannot comprehend the reason.....
ur rite when u say Quran is tryin to put Allahs attributes in human terms...cuz it is tryin to make us humans understand despite our limited abilities.....n doesnt say further cuz ofcourse we will not understand....so its not that the Quran is wrong or contradictory ...its jus that our minds have limitations.....
Sorri br zulfiqar..i had said that i wont praticipate in this forum...but i jus cudnt help....i will try to restrain with my posts as much as possible..if u or anybody feels my posts are below the intellectual standards on this forum...i request admin to delete my posts...thanks.....
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like_minded
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
If we understand Quran, surely we can understand ourselves better, because Quran is like a sign-post, it points back to you.
Allah Ta'la has blessed us with treasure, which is priceless. That treasure is nothing but our own understanding, our ability to understand our ownselves, we are divine, spiritual, we have to acknowledge and accept this reality with great humility. This will stop all our spiritual seeking just like that, materialistic seeking will always remain as long as one breathes, so what?? let it remain? Strike a balance, Let our actions flow without any effort, as life, which flows, stop complicating our lives by trying to find out its meaning and goal, because there isnt anything to it. It is there accept it and have faith in unknown (Allah Ta'la)
People who worship (idol, dai etc etc) I have a question for them? Do they really know what they are doing??
Allah Ta'la has blessed us with treasure, which is priceless. That treasure is nothing but our own understanding, our ability to understand our ownselves, we are divine, spiritual, we have to acknowledge and accept this reality with great humility. This will stop all our spiritual seeking just like that, materialistic seeking will always remain as long as one breathes, so what?? let it remain? Strike a balance, Let our actions flow without any effort, as life, which flows, stop complicating our lives by trying to find out its meaning and goal, because there isnt anything to it. It is there accept it and have faith in unknown (Allah Ta'la)
People who worship (idol, dai etc etc) I have a question for them? Do they really know what they are doing??
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like_minded
- Posts: 1260
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:01 am
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Allah Ta'la is surely compassionate and merciful, He forgives the biggest sinner, no doubt about that. The day sinner realizes his sins, surely he is free from it, Allah has already pardoned him. He is not sitting there to punish the sinners, or expect the sinners to ask for his forgiveness, That way he will never forgive, because if He does, then the sinner washes it away and again starts sinning.... So, please dont wash away your sins, let it remain inside you with realization.
Even after realization, if one sins, then he pays for it right here, during his life.
Even after realization, if one sins, then he pays for it right here, during his life.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
makberi,
anajmi and I are not saying the same thing.
It is easy to understand why God will punish sinners in Hell. Because, sinners will not obey God's commands. Why would anyone not obey God? Because God has given free will for humans to choose to obey God or not. But there is a caveat. Only those on whom God showers his grace will be allowed to obey him. Others, God will make will make them dumb, blind and deaf. They will be thrown in eternal fire.
That is the way it is. Who says that? God himself. But that is only in Bible and Quran. God has sent some other messengers which say other things.
So, it is all God's doing. It is his theater.
anajmi and I are not saying the same thing.
It is easy to understand why God will punish sinners in Hell. Because, sinners will not obey God's commands. Why would anyone not obey God? Because God has given free will for humans to choose to obey God or not. But there is a caveat. Only those on whom God showers his grace will be allowed to obey him. Others, God will make will make them dumb, blind and deaf. They will be thrown in eternal fire.
That is the way it is. Who says that? God himself. But that is only in Bible and Quran. God has sent some other messengers which say other things.
So, it is all God's doing. It is his theater.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
porus,
ofcourse He punishes sinners for commiting misdeeds...but i believe that ur question was wat does He get out of it......u call Him a sadist rite......but then again ur using human terms to understand Him....which is not possible...cuz He is above human understanding.....wat i was tryin to say was that the purpose of Heaven or Hell is beyond human comprehension.......His ways are beyond human comprehension......exactly wat ur tryin to say here......
"Regarding God, I had made my thinking very clear. God is uncreated and cannot be experienced by man. Hence, nothing can be said about God by any man."
as i said b4...Quran or islamic views on God are not contradictory....they as a matter of fact say very little......too little to draw conclusions or judgements...u say He is cruel if he punishes sinners.....but then arent u using human terms to describe Him????......as He is beyond our comprehension...how can we pass judgements on Him???.....
ofcourse He punishes sinners for commiting misdeeds...but i believe that ur question was wat does He get out of it......u call Him a sadist rite......but then again ur using human terms to understand Him....which is not possible...cuz He is above human understanding.....wat i was tryin to say was that the purpose of Heaven or Hell is beyond human comprehension.......His ways are beyond human comprehension......exactly wat ur tryin to say here......
"Regarding God, I had made my thinking very clear. God is uncreated and cannot be experienced by man. Hence, nothing can be said about God by any man."
as i said b4...Quran or islamic views on God are not contradictory....they as a matter of fact say very little......too little to draw conclusions or judgements...u say He is cruel if he punishes sinners.....but then arent u using human terms to describe Him????......as He is beyond our comprehension...how can we pass judgements on Him???.....
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
in short porus,
ur trying to show contradictions in the islamic view of God....but the Islamic view on God is that one must not think or try to understand God's way of working or His actions...cuz they r beyond human comprehension
Quran is not contradictory in its view of God cuz it jus doesnt present the full picture.....quite simply becuz as humans we wont understand it....thus jus using description of God to pass judgements on Him wud be wrong..it wud be like u calling me a wahabbi jus based on this post ...cuz u dont know me that well...to say God is sadist or unmerciful etc wud require u to understand Him.....which u cannot nor can anybody else.......as u have said in ur previous post
ur trying to show contradictions in the islamic view of God....but the Islamic view on God is that one must not think or try to understand God's way of working or His actions...cuz they r beyond human comprehension
Quran is not contradictory in its view of God cuz it jus doesnt present the full picture.....quite simply becuz as humans we wont understand it....thus jus using description of God to pass judgements on Him wud be wrong..it wud be like u calling me a wahabbi jus based on this post ...cuz u dont know me that well...to say God is sadist or unmerciful etc wud require u to understand Him.....which u cannot nor can anybody else.......as u have said in ur previous post
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
makberi,
You are not supposed to be turning the tables on porus. By the way, I liked your last couple of posts. Here is what is contradictory,
You are not supposed to be turning the tables on porus. By the way, I liked your last couple of posts. Here is what is contradictory,
Then shut the hell up. If nothing can be said about God then how can you say that he is uncreated or that he cannot be experienced? Just don't say anything. Keep your mouth shut. It'll be good for all of us. And don't talk about the prophet either. The prophet and his sunnah is beyond the understanding of the disbelievers. The prophet didn't burn anybody's house for no reason. He just showed us the importance of prayer. You are the one that concluded that hence he is an arsonist. Do you even know what an arsonist is you pretender?God is uncreated and cannot be experienced by man. Hence, nothing can be said about God by any man.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Now coming to God's infinite mercy, the sinner and his punishment. God explains in the quran and the prophet clarifies in his sunnah that God is ready to forgive the sinner as soon as the sinner seeks forgiveness. The only condition is that sinner be sincere and intend never to commit the sin again. The sinner can do this till the day he dies. God doesn't say that you have 1 or 2 or a 100 chances to seek forgiveness. The sinner has an entire lifetime. Technically that means that the sinner has an infinite number of chances to seek Allah's forgiveness.
Allah makes it clear in the quran that if you are good, you get Jannah, if you are bad, you get Jahannum. A sinner who does not seek forgiveness, is one who has showed his desire to go to Jahannum. Allah in his infinite mercy gives the person exactly what he wants. The sinner gets Jahannum as that is exactly what he wants since he did not seek forgiveness. The righteous get Jannah as that is exactly what he wants.
Allah does not send the sinner to hell because he wants to have fun watching the sinner burn. He sends the sinner to hell because that is where the sinner wants to go.
Now, before you reply (and I am referring to porus only), remember you cannot talk about God.
Allah makes it clear in the quran that if you are good, you get Jannah, if you are bad, you get Jahannum. A sinner who does not seek forgiveness, is one who has showed his desire to go to Jahannum. Allah in his infinite mercy gives the person exactly what he wants. The sinner gets Jahannum as that is exactly what he wants since he did not seek forgiveness. The righteous get Jannah as that is exactly what he wants.
Allah does not send the sinner to hell because he wants to have fun watching the sinner burn. He sends the sinner to hell because that is where the sinner wants to go.
Now, before you reply (and I am referring to porus only), remember you cannot talk about God.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Forgot to mention this.
There isn't a single court on earth that will forgive the sinner after his sin (whatever the earthly definition of that might be) has been established because the sinner seeks forgiveness. You know why? Because it is not possible for humans to undo the harm that was caused by the sin of the sinner. Allah however, has the power to forgive because He has the power to undo the harm caused by the sinner.
There isn't a single court on earth that will forgive the sinner after his sin (whatever the earthly definition of that might be) has been established because the sinner seeks forgiveness. You know why? Because it is not possible for humans to undo the harm that was caused by the sin of the sinner. Allah however, has the power to forgive because He has the power to undo the harm caused by the sinner.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Now, all this is too complicated for the Kafir to understand. So you can expect shouts of wahhabi, wahhabi, bigot, bigot from them.
Al Zulfikar,
I apologize, there is going to be a few more posts from me over here.
Al Zulfikar,
I apologize, there is going to be a few more posts from me over here.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Now amongst the sinners there are some that are unworthy of Allah's mercy. These are the lowest of the low. An example of these types is Abu Lahab/Abu Jahal. Allah sets a veil on their hearts so that they will never seek mercy. There are comtemporary examples also, but I won't get into them. Yes, Allah wants to see them punished. Who wouldn't!!
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
I will try to explain porus' claim that God is schizophrenic because He is infinitely merciful and at the same time will punish the sinners forever in hell. Obviously, he doesn't know what schizophrenia is, but that is not the point I am trying to make.
I am sure all of us have been blessed with loving parents and I am also sure that all of us remember at least one instance when either or both of them beat the crap out of us. Can that be considered schizophrenic behaviour. According to porus' definition it can. Can a judge who convicts a person one day and then acquits another person on another day be considered a schizophrenic? A schizophrenic judge would be one who would convict and acquit the same person while not remembering having already done one while doing the other.
God is not schizophrenic. His mercy is for the righteous and those who repent. His punishment is for the sinners and disbelievers.
I am sure all of us have been blessed with loving parents and I am also sure that all of us remember at least one instance when either or both of them beat the crap out of us. Can that be considered schizophrenic behaviour. According to porus' definition it can. Can a judge who convicts a person one day and then acquits another person on another day be considered a schizophrenic? A schizophrenic judge would be one who would convict and acquit the same person while not remembering having already done one while doing the other.
God is not schizophrenic. His mercy is for the righteous and those who repent. His punishment is for the sinners and disbelievers.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Let us imagine sometime after the day of Judgement, if that is possible.
On the one hand we have all these jannat-dwellers who are in continual bliss adoring God and singing his praises, that is when when they get respite from ecstatic sex with houris (what will women do, I wonder. Would they have male houris?) These jannat-dwellers will have been examplary humans or will have availed themselves of Alah's infinte mercy before coming there.
This jannat will be infinite in both spatial and temporal context. No matter where one goes it wil be jannat and jannat, gardens under which rivers will flow and plenty to eat.
On the other hand, also infinte both in time and space, there will be a pit to of hellish fire, where people like porus will be seen screaming in agony, even begging Allah to shower some of his infinte mercy. But it will be no use. They chose All's wrath and his infinite mercilessness.
(I often thought of Mother Teressa being an embodiment of compassion. I could not imagine her to be incompassionate to any one under any circumstance. But she is not God, is she?)
Now, it would be very kind of God to allow Jannat-dwellers an occassional peak at hell to remind them of what they mercifully avoided, by gd's grace. At the same time he could allow jahannum-dwellers an occassional peak at Jannat, to writhe further in agony, to see what they missed.
Both these infinite locations will occupy the same space and time. For Allah, everything is possible.
That would be that. And Allah can watch smug in his enormous acomplishment.
Now what, God? Do you have another project in mind?
On the one hand we have all these jannat-dwellers who are in continual bliss adoring God and singing his praises, that is when when they get respite from ecstatic sex with houris (what will women do, I wonder. Would they have male houris?) These jannat-dwellers will have been examplary humans or will have availed themselves of Alah's infinte mercy before coming there.
This jannat will be infinite in both spatial and temporal context. No matter where one goes it wil be jannat and jannat, gardens under which rivers will flow and plenty to eat.
On the other hand, also infinte both in time and space, there will be a pit to of hellish fire, where people like porus will be seen screaming in agony, even begging Allah to shower some of his infinte mercy. But it will be no use. They chose All's wrath and his infinite mercilessness.
(I often thought of Mother Teressa being an embodiment of compassion. I could not imagine her to be incompassionate to any one under any circumstance. But she is not God, is she?)
Now, it would be very kind of God to allow Jannat-dwellers an occassional peak at hell to remind them of what they mercifully avoided, by gd's grace. At the same time he could allow jahannum-dwellers an occassional peak at Jannat, to writhe further in agony, to see what they missed.
Both these infinite locations will occupy the same space and time. For Allah, everything is possible.
That would be that. And Allah can watch smug in his enormous acomplishment.
Now what, God? Do you have another project in mind?
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
porus,
There is a why you shouldn't be talking about God. You don't have a clue. Why are you worried about God's next project when you are getting screwed in the current one? Humans have existed for a few thousand years, the universe is billions of years old. I am sure He had projects then as he will after he takes care of the likes of you.
There is a why you shouldn't be talking about God. You don't have a clue. Why are you worried about God's next project when you are getting screwed in the current one? Humans have existed for a few thousand years, the universe is billions of years old. I am sure He had projects then as he will after he takes care of the likes of you.
More idiotic comments. Figments of a decaying minds imagination.Both these infinite locations will occupy the same space and time.
God has made it pretty clear in the quran that once the day approaches your calls for mercy will not be accepted. How stupid does one need to be to realize that? Why wait till the day after judgment. Beg for his mercy now.even begging Allah to shower some of his infinte mercy
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
I am really worried about God because he will be ompletely bored after the Day of Judgement and will get into some mischief.
There will be no more need for his infinite grace because he will have showered it all on people in Jannat. And he will have no more nhe willeed for his infinte mercy because no one except those like me in Jahannum will be begging for it and he will not use it.
So what is poor God to do? Do you think people in Jannat would think of something to alleviate his utter boredom?
anajmi could be the leading angel in the new project, a new Jibraeel. He deserves it!!
There will be no more need for his infinite grace because he will have showered it all on people in Jannat. And he will have no more nhe willeed for his infinte mercy because no one except those like me in Jahannum will be begging for it and he will not use it.
So what is poor God to do? Do you think people in Jannat would think of something to alleviate his utter boredom?
anajmi could be the leading angel in the new project, a new Jibraeel. He deserves it!!
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
porus,
There is a reason why Lao Tzu asked people not to talk about God. He foresaw people like yourself.
Now coming to your idiotic comments. First, you should not be worried about God. You should be worried about yourself. I am sure God will keep himself busy. After all he is going to be torturing you for all eternity. He will need to be figuring out new ways to do it.
Second, you have to understand that there will be a lot of kafirs like you in hell begging for forgiveness. Allah's mercy is infinite. Even if he were to shower it to free all of you from hell, he will still have an infinite amount of mercy left. So, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about what he would do with it. I would simply worry about my own fate which you seem to be neglecting.
Now, if you have a little mercy of your own, please shower it on me and stop talking about God who cannot be talked about.
There is a reason why Lao Tzu asked people not to talk about God. He foresaw people like yourself.
Now coming to your idiotic comments. First, you should not be worried about God. You should be worried about yourself. I am sure God will keep himself busy. After all he is going to be torturing you for all eternity. He will need to be figuring out new ways to do it.
Second, you have to understand that there will be a lot of kafirs like you in hell begging for forgiveness. Allah's mercy is infinite. Even if he were to shower it to free all of you from hell, he will still have an infinite amount of mercy left. So, if I were you, I wouldn't worry about what he would do with it. I would simply worry about my own fate which you seem to be neglecting.
Now, if you have a little mercy of your own, please shower it on me and stop talking about God who cannot be talked about.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Is there an ayat or hadith about this? I mean about his need to figure out new ways to torture me?Originally posted by anajmi:
porus,
I am sure God will keep himself busy. After all he is going to be torturing you for all eternity. He will need to be figuring out new ways to do it.
This God is becoming more interesting, almost human with frailties like holding such a enormous god-sized grudge against porus, that he would be unwilling to use even a bit of his infinite mercy to help him out. Looks like he is made out to be a miser, a divine incarnation of Scrooge. Or is it the other way round? Scrooge is incarnation of one of the faces, scroogy, of multifaceted God.
Since he is so upset about me not begging him for his mercy, maybe I will think about putting God out of his misery and start worshipping him. I will be more compassionate towards him.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
porus,
Then there is the other side of the coin also, (which you cannot understand and tend to label as schizophrenia), God actually doesn't need anything from you. He is not affected by your worship and nor is he affected by your disbelief. It is simply for your own good. It takes a higher level of understanding to come to terms with these opposites, but if you try hard you might just be able to comprehend it.
Actually, you are right to a certain extent. God wants each and every one of his creation to go to heaven. He does not want to send you to hell. There is a reason why he kept sending messengers to the disbelievers through out history. You will get a lot of evidence of this in the sunnah of the prophet.Since he is so upset about me not begging him for his mercy, maybe I will think about putting God out of his misery and start worshipping him. I will be more compassionate towards him.
Then there is the other side of the coin also, (which you cannot understand and tend to label as schizophrenia), God actually doesn't need anything from you. He is not affected by your worship and nor is he affected by your disbelief. It is simply for your own good. It takes a higher level of understanding to come to terms with these opposites, but if you try hard you might just be able to comprehend it.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
One other thing, if God were to treat the sinner and the disbeliever the same as the righteous and the believer, it would be gross injustice to the righteous and the believer. Imagine a person who worshipped Allah his entire life and led his life according to the commands of Allah getting a plot in Jannah next to the sinner. So may be the disbeliever has to be punished simply to impart justice to the believer. The sinner has to be punished to impart justice to the righteous.
Re: The Bohra Dai and the Ismaili Imam visiting East Africa
Sin? A concept fraught with moral relativism.
Now, Wahhabi God better make sure that his followers in Jannat have their own real estate far removed from the land of the followers the Zionist-Christian God.
I mean a righteous Wahhabi may not mind a neighbor who slept with a nine-year old girl in accordance with Sunnah of the Prophet. If he was placed next to a Zionist-Christian, there would be real discord in heaven.
Now, Wahhabi God better make sure that his followers in Jannat have their own real estate far removed from the land of the followers the Zionist-Christian God.
I mean a righteous Wahhabi may not mind a neighbor who slept with a nine-year old girl in accordance with Sunnah of the Prophet. If he was placed next to a Zionist-Christian, there would be real discord in heaven.