Refuting Meherally on the Sunni Origins of the Khojas

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Akbarally Meherally claims in his "History of the Agakhani Ismailis" that the<br>Khojas were orginally a hindu caste which was orginally converted to Sunni<br>Islam by Pir Shams and was then somehow converted to Ithna’ashariyya<br>Islam by the First Aga Khan in the mid-1800’s.<p>Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims maintian the Pir Shams was sent to India by a<br>Nizari Ismaili Imam and that he converted a hindu caste to the Nizari form<br>of Ismailism sometime during the 14th century. <p>[Note: It is important to keep in mind the Shia doctrine of taqiyya which<br>apparently Meherally has forgotten about or conviently ignored. Taqiyya is<br>the permissable concealment of one’s faith to prevent persecution and<br>oppression. It is practiced by most Shia’s in areas were they are not in the<br>majority and who live hostile Sectarian States or rulers.]<p>Pir Sham’s family who reportedly maintians his shrine and receives pilgrims<br>are today Sunni. This does not mean that Pir Shams was a Sunni. That the<br>guardians of his shrine would at first claim and over time actually become<br>Sunni is only to be expected. One cannot conceal a shrine from the eyes of a<br>hostile Sunni Ruler. So if the family were to have mainained his shrine, and<br>the income it brought in from pilgrims, then they would have had to appear<br>as Sunni’s. While at first they may have practiced taqiyya, given time they<br>eventually forgot their Ismaili roots and became fully Sunni.<p>One should keep in mind that just because some of Pir Sham’s descendants<br>are now Sunni in no way implies that Pir Shams had to be a Sunni. Children<br>often abandon the faiths of their parents and ancestors (as Mr. Meherally<br>ought to know!).<p>The confusion over exactly when Pir Shams was born or died is immaterial. Oral traditions, especially South Asian ones, where simply not interested in history or keeping track of dates. What was more important was the story and spiritual truths the story relayed. This is acknowleged by all scholars of South Asian religious history.<p>Pir Shams did not have to speak Gujarati for ginans in that language to be compsed by him. Whatever language he spoke to communiate the ideas that became the ginans known to us today, were transmitted orally within the community from generation to generation. The people who sang these ginans incorporated changes within them as their language evolved. This continued until they were written down then they became static in language. This is a process seen in most oral tradtions which convert over to a written one.<p>Mr. Meherally delights in asking pointed questions so I will ask him these:<p>If the Khojas were Sunni why did they travel to Iran to present dasond<br>(tithes) to an Ismaili Imam (or even an Ithna’ashariyya Pir, if we take Mr.<br>Meherally’s viewpoint)? There are tombstones written in the Khoja secret<br>script dated as early as 1722. <p>If the Khojas were Sunni why did the Ismaili Imams send letters back with<br>farmans for their communities?<p>If the Khojas were Sunni why did they use ginans with Hindu mythology? <p>If the Khojas were Sunni why did the Satpanthis (or Imam-Shahi sect) who<br>split off from them in the 16th century share similar ginans and Nizari<br>beliefs?<p>If the Khojas were Sunni why was there no Khoja mosque built in India<br>before the dispute with the First Aga Khan?<p>If the Khojas were Sunni why would they have hid their ginans by using a<br>secret script?<p>If the Khojas were Sunni why would the Imam Aga Khan I have single them<br>out for conversion and not some other Indian Muslim sub-group? <p>Why did the Aga Khan I have a relationship with the Khoja community<br>before he arrived in India in 1841?<p>Why did the Khoja jamat support the Imam Aga Khan I if they were not<br>already Ismaili? <p>It just doesn’t make since that if they were always Sunni that they would<br>have just converted to ismailism or even to the Ithna’ashariyya Islam by an<br>order of a non-Sunni Imam. However, it would make since if they were<br>practicing Sunni Islam as a way of conealing their true faith. Then the<br>sudden switch over makes sense as well as the adoptation of Ithna’ashariyya<br>Islam under the first two Aga Khans as the new outer form of the faith. <p>This is not the first time that the Ismailis underwent a rapid change in the<br>outer forms of the faith. In 1164 CE, Imam Hasan II (upon his name be<br>peace) proclaimed the Qiyamat and Ismailis openly practiced their faith.<br>This continued until the Imamate of Hasan III who in 1210, due to the<br>political and military situation, sought peace with the hostile Sunni<br>community. He did this by declaring the Satr and the Nizari Ismaili<br>community openly practiced Sunni Islam. After Imam Hasan III death in<br>1221 CE, the Satr was relaxed and many Ismaili’s could openly practice the<br>Qiyamat once more. So the changes that occurred in the Khoja Ismaili<br>community are both tradional means of self-protection and a reflection of<br>historical Ismaili practice.<p>As to the charge that there was no need for taqiyya under 19th century<br>British rule in India, this can be answered. First, the political situation in<br>India was in noway settled until the last half of that century. There was an<br>uprising against the British that could have led to the establishment of a<br>militant Islamic state. This state could have then oppressed the Ismailis if<br>they were already open about their faith (there have been communal<br>violence against Ismailis in Pakistan since the collapse of their secular state<br>in the 1980’s, for example). Second, the Ismaili community has along history<br>of concealment which has worked quite well to serve and to protect the<br>community. Third, religious habits die hard even with the best of intentions.<br>Most religious doctrines are traditions which are handed down and<br>treasured. And lastly, the decision was the Imam of the Time’s to make and<br>that is how it happen. It is the function of the Imam to make such a decision<br>and it is not up to outsiders to question (yes, Mr. Meherally you are as big of<br>an outsider now as I am!).<p>In conclusion, it is obvious to anyone who takes the time to study Ismaili<br>history that the Khojas were already Shia Imami Ismaili Muslims before the<br>arrival of the Aga Khans. Mr. Meherally’s views are completely spurious. He<br>plays a game with us over the outer apparence of the Ismaili community, all<br>the while purposefully neglecting the batini view of taqiyya. One should keep<br>in mind one cannot really understand Ismaili history without an<br>understanding of the doctrine of taqiyya. <p><br>

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Well, actually Akberally is practicing taqiyya. In fact you are also practicing taqiyya by saying akberally is wrong. I am also practicing taqiyya, whenever I want to fool people I practice taqiyya, in fact my taqiyya is so strong, you will never be able to guess who I am.

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yawn....your reply is just silly.

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Exactly. The concept of taqiyya finally started seeming silly.

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muslim first aka akberally,<p>where are you? <p>Is there any response that you would care to post from your website re: br Shaksway's post & questions raised therein? <br>As I pointed out to you in the other two threads i.e. if you cannot answer questions posed to you then do the honourable thing and get lost.

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<br>Hafeez<p>Boy, you are a sick puppy. Akabarally has you chasing your own tail. Actually BR.anajmi is akabarally. I am Hazir Imaam.<p>Peace<p>

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HAIL HAZIR

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If you want to refute Mehrally, then why don't you write to <I>him</I>. I don't understand, why come to a Bohra message board to refute him?

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Demonstration of Aql and Reason on the part of the Ismailis.

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Looks like someone has, belatedly, woken up to akberally meherally's antics on this website. <p>Tell me - Who do you think has been slandering ismaili tariqa under various nicks of:<br>agahkani willing to convert;<br>hafiz;<br>tarasara;<br>alphabxx;<br>muslim first;<br>etc, etc<p>Some innocent sunni muslim - you think? <br>Did it ever occur to you to ask them the same question?<p>Now, be a good chap and finally ask the same sunnis at another website(you are a registered member) why they are slandering the 12'er Shia faith on that particular site?<p>http://www.ummah.net/forum/viewforum.ph ... =1&4981<br>

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Hafeez,<p>I am extremely saddened. You forgot to even mention my name after the spanking I gave you and your ismaili co-conspirators.

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Anajmi is a complete idiotic infidel.<br>All he does is speak crap. Forget his opinion, it doesnt count.<br>Same goes for Akbarally.<p>They are all infidels!<p>Shia Islam is Islam,<br>Sunni Islam is Islam,<p>wahhabism is NOT Islam at all, it is a terrorist cult started by the Saudis. A COMPLETE FARCE. These are the people whom Allah warns us about.<p><br>

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I wrote this refutation several years ago and yes, Meherally was sent a copy. He even replied. He did not bother to answer my questions but just demanded that I produce the pre-1722 khoja gravemarker. This of course is mentioned and photoed in Daftary's "The Ismailis" <p>As to why I posted this article on this list? I done so because on several other threads Meherally's bizarre historical claims on khoja origins were made and I thought they needed to be shown how in error they are. <p>jim davis

[Guest]

Come on now Nizari, what happened to Ismaili peace and that too only a day after you proved your ismaili aql and reason on another thread?<p>And while giving it to you, did I quote a single hadith? Everything was from the quran and that too was everything that you quoted in the first place. Stop blaming Akbarally and the Wahabis for your shortcomings.<p>When you cannot justify your stupid claims start shouting WAHABI WAHABI WAHABI. Is that all the Nizari Imam has taught you retarded folks? What is the problem with you guys. So what if I am akbarally or if I am a WAHABI. Am I wrong in what I say?<p>And who gives a rat's ass about whether my opinion counts or not, what matters is whether it is right or not. Every Nizaris ass has been kicked and mind you nobody used WAHABISM or AKBARALLYISM. All that was used was the truth.<p>Can you deal with that. Do I hear WAHABI WAHABI WAHABI?

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And yeah I do speak crap sometimes, but that entirely depends upon the audience. I am catering to the nizaris in this forum, and that is all they deserve.

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anajmi<br>The only ass that you are kicking is your own ass every time you open your mouth. Your intelligence level is that of a ten year old and not even worth responding to. Go read your past posts and see what I mean.

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Imagine this a ten year old was able to shut Ismaili mouths. What would've happened if daddy Anajmi was here!!

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Just thought of a better one. If a ten year old had Ismailis shouting WAHABI WAHABI WAHABI, imagine what would happen if an actual WAHABI showed up. You guys would have to change your pants!!

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<br>No Br.anajmi;<p>You are not ten year old. remember you are old f--t Akabarally<p>Keep up the good work.<p>Jazak allah and Wasalaam<p>Hazir Imaam<p>

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Muslim First and Anajmi<p>you guyz couldnt prove anything against Ismailis. You didnt quote anything in support of your points. All you do is talk about irrelevant things and somehow try to relate to what we were discussing.<p>Wahabis pay ppl like you to go all over and spread their cult.<br>

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You are right we didn't quote anything to prove our points. All we did was tear apart everything that you quoted.<p>And wahabis do not pay us to do this. We do this just cause we like it. And we are not spreading any cult over here. All we are doing is breaking the back (or kicking ass) of those who are trying to spread their cult over here.