Space Travel

[Guest]

From my understanding, Muslims who follow the 7th centuary Shariah & Sunnah are forbidden to travel in space or live on any other planets, because they cannot face the Qiblah for prayers.

[Guest]

They can't face the Kaba (qibla) even today!<br>Unless, like anajmi - they think that the Earth is Flat!

[Guest]

<br>So Nizari/Hafiz wants to continue FITNA undet GORA' name<p>

[Guest]

<br>Hafiz<br>Even Imbecile like you can be educated if you use your Aqual.<p>Here is link for you to understand how qiblah is determine.<p>http://www.moonsighting.com/qibla.html<p>Good Day<p>

[Guest]

So Hafeez,<p>You are well into 21st century geometry and physics! I commend you on your modern insight. You cannot really face the Kaaba!! How brilliant!!!<p>Let us apply the 21st century science to Hazar Imam's light. Where does it emanate from? Is it made of photons? Is it subject to wave-particle duality?<p>If it is a photon you can never see the light according to Heisenberg's Uncertainty principle. So, I am afraid Imam's noor can never be seen by his followers.<p>We will have to use Paul Dirac's multi-valuen eigenvalues in order to solve the wave-function and the probability that a light particle emanating from Hazar Imam can hit your eye and you can experience it. Then the photon will need to interact very purely with the rods and cones in your retina. <p>Hazar Imam's noor must be from the esoteric world. Maybe it gets coverted to something else so only his followers can experience the light.<p>Or it light a metaphor? Like all the specific Quran verses used to justify Hazar Imam's abandonment of Islam? <p>And what is this I read about Hazar Imam's Islamization initiative. Did he thibk his followers were not Muslims? Why Islamize them.<p>

[Guest]

The earth surely must be FLAT! I am convinced after the outburst from the likes of MF & porus!<p>The majority and folks like the Kothari bohras are literalists so when they face West - they are convinced that they are facing Kaba, when actually they are facing SKYWARD due to the earth being a sphere. But wait - the earth is Flat in which case they are perfectly aligned to the kaba - literally speaking!<p>If they were esoterists then surely Qibla-Kaba is everywhere but they are not and -that is that!<p><br>

[Guest]

<br>Hafiz<p>Use Aqual<p>Read the links I provided if you wnt inteliigent discussion. If you want to have fun then laugh at yourself.<p>

[Guest]

The day fundos learn to use their aql the earth will, indeed, become Round/Sphere!<p>

[Guest]

Beavis,<p>If you just knew what aql is, everyone on this board would've been saved a lot of misery.

[Guest]

<br>I e-mailed eminent scientist Khalid Shaukat question raised by ‘Gora’<p>Here is what I e-mailed<p>______________________________<p>How do you answer stupid Question like this<br>><br>> "From my understanding, Muslims who follow the 7th century Shariah & Sunnah are forbidden to travel in space or live on any other planets, because they cannot face the Qiblah for prayers. (See:http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com/ubb/Forum ... l)<br>><br>> I will appreciate if you can educate me.<br>><br>> Wasalaam<p>________________________<p><br>Brother Khalid Shaukat’s Answer is as follows:<p>"It is a nonsense and ridiculous statement. Shari'ah did not prohibit going in space. From space, we can calculate Qibla direction too."<p>_____________________<p>Note:<p>Brother Khalid Shaukat’s web site is WWW.moonsighting.com<p>___________________________<p>This should end this debate until Nizari/hafiz/asif khan/Gora come up with another Fitna subject<p><br> <br>

[Guest]

Muslim First,<p>Thank you for the link to the eminent scientist's site. I am sure the site has a lot of appeal to moonwatchers; pity it is not visually very attractive. I could not see anything that indicated how you would determine the direction of the Qibla away from earth. I guess nobody has asked that question so he has not given it any prominence. Incidentally, besides moonwatching what other area does he have eminence in and would you know of any other academic/astronomy site that cites Khalid Shaukat's eminence?<p>" And to Allah belong the East and the West, wherever you turn, there is the Presence of Allah. Surely Allah is All-Embracing, All-Knowing."

[Guest]

<br>Why don't you ask him and also tell him about your concern about his site.<p>I am sure he will be happy to respond.<p>Take it easy Bhayya.<p>

[Guest]

Muslim First,<p>I only commented on his site and wondered about his emininece as you stated so categorically "This should end this debate". Pardon me for assuming that your assurance stemmed from some personal knowledge of his eminence. I am sure Mr Shaukat is a very learned person. However, these days adjectives like "eminent", "leading" etc are so commonplace that one just likes to be sure before defering to someone's superior skills. But then again some people will be taken in by anyone marginally more educated than themselves.

[Guest]

It would seem that the farther you move from the Qibla, the more general your direction becomes. In the Kaaba, you face Hajr-e-Aswad. In the Haram you face the Kaaba. In Mecca you face the Haram (and the Kaaba insofar as you can), outside of Mecca you face Mecca. It seems a logical progression, then, that when off-planet, you would face the Earth, or the Sol system, or the Milky Way galaxy, etc., depending on how far away you were...

[Guest]

Regarding prayers, where in the Quran does it say to face The Kabba when specifically praying?<p>12 : 150 "So from whencesoever thou startest forth turn thy face in the direction of the Sacred Mosque; among wheresoever ye are turn your face thither that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you and ye may be guided."<p>now it actually says whenever you start something to face the Sacred Mosque. So, if I were crossing a road and Mecca was behind me, i would have to look backward. Does this sound practical? This is not Islam that can be practiced in everyday life.<p>So, why do we face Mecca? Because the Kabba is in Mecca. And why is the Kabba a "Sacred" Mosque? Because Hazrat Ali was born inside of it. An esoteric interpretation of the Qibla means remembering Hazrat Ali/ the Imam of the time when you are doing something.

[Guest]

I object to what this Khalid Shaukat has answered. If man travels to different galaxies and planets, I think it would be difficult to pray facing the Qiblah. If that is the case, then it goes against the 7th centuary Shariah & Sunnah and is forbidden.<p>>>><br>Brother Khalid Shaukat’s Answer is as follows:<p>"It is a nonsense and ridiculous statement. Shari'ah did not prohibit going in space. From space, we can calculate Qibla direction too."<br>

[Guest]

Butthead,<p>Explain to something, hazrat ali as you say was born inside the kaaba, when hazrat ali's mother was having labour pains just before he was born, why did she go into the kaaba and not to her house where somebody may have been able to help her?? Or did somebody tell her that he had to be born inside the kaaba cause he was special??<p>One other esoteric interpretation is that she wanted to hide Hazrat Ali from the Ismailis of that time.

[Guest]

Anajmi,<p>Now an expert in ante-natal practices as well! Have you never heard of children being born on railway platforms etc? Presumably their mothers should have stayed (or rushed back) home.<p>Anajmi, I am sure most of us can just about tolerate you trying your best to bring all discussions regarding the Ismailis to an early and undignified close but is it too much to ask that you try and keep the intellectial standard at least up to a 12 year old's?

[Guest]

Gud,<p>I am sorry, see I didn't know that there were no trains in the 7th century, so there were no railway tracks either, otherwise Hazrat Ali would've been born on one.<p>Idiot, if the these kids are born on a railway track, it is not out of choice. Nobody goes to a railway track to give birth. So if Hazrat Ali was born inside the kaaba it was not his mother's choice, then what was she doing inside the kaaba which at that timed had idols and was under the control of the idol worshippers of that time.<p>Is it too much to expect that you would think before you right, or am I so deep inside your ass that you cannot think about anything else but me.

[Guest]

anajmi,<p>Sorry I had forgotten you take everything (not just ahadith) literally.<br>"So if Hazrat Ali was born inside the kaaba it was not his mother's choice, then what was she doing inside the kaaba which at that timed had idols and was under the control of the idol worshippers of that time."<br>Nice to know you give Hazrat Ali's mother a status greater than your first Caliph. You suggest she was above such things as idol worshipping when everyone other than the Prophet (yes including Abu Bakr, Umar etc) used to indulge in such activities. If I am not mistaken, she used to look after kaaba and that is why she was in the vicinity.<br>"Is it too much to expect that you would think before you right, or am I so deep inside your ass that you cannot think about anything else but me." <br>Added delusions to your other problems? The Muslim world really cannot suffer the loss of a talent like you. For the sake of Islam, please see a shrink quickly<br>

[Guest]

THE ISLAMIC TRUTH: <br>http://www.kuwait.net/~akar/html/imams/ ... /born.html <p><br>The Kabah--Ali's Birthplace <br>The Honour Bestowed--Only Upon the <br>Imam Ali Ibin Abe Taleb [as] <br>------- <p>Fatimah Bint Al-Assad <p>She was heavy with child, was passing by the Holy House of God, The Holy Kabah, on her way to her humble house. When sudden labour pains came upon her. She lent her swollen body. for support on the Kabah sacred Walls to desperatly steady herself and to wait out, for her pains to subside. But instead the pains increased and she realised that her time for birth was now upon her. <p>She frantically looked around her and saw the Kabah surrounding was busy with people, all strangers to her, paying their homage around the Holy House of God. Then the thought occurred to her, that she would give birth infront all these strangers. So she looked up and prayed for God to help her in her immeadiate dire need and to save her the embarressment of giving birth to her child infront of all the people. <p>No sooner had she prayed, the Kabah corner stones began to split apart, and she slipped into Holy House through the sudden opening. Which closed immeadiatly after her. She suddenly was eneveloped by a tranquil air of peace and purity. Beautiful women all smiling warmly reached out to greet her and led her to a soft bed to lie upon. She must be in Heaven she thought. <p>The people looked with utmost disbelief and crowded around the Kaba's corner wall staring at the crack that was still visible where the pregnant women sliped through. For three days and nights Fatimah Bint Al-Assad was within The Kabah Holy walls. Then on the third day the walls again began to split apart, just as before at the same place where they had split before, and Fatimah appeared through the gap proudly holding a small infant boy in her arms. The Holy Kabah walls once again closed upon itself immeadiately <br>after her. <p>The people gathered around the mother and child staring in wonderment at what had befalled before them. They questioned her of the miracle they had all just witnessed. <p>Fatimah told them that in her plight she had prayed and pleaded to God for help and to provide her shelter to give birth to her child. When she saw the walls split apart. She cowered in fear. But four beautifull Ladies within spoke softly to her, and told her not be afraid and that Allah(swt) had heard her prayer and so they invited me in. She said as soon she entered. The holy walls behind her closed and she was helped by the Ladies in her ordeal and she gave birth to her new born son. Angels handed down to the Ladies water and they cleaned her and her baby and prepared clothes for the <br>small infant. For three days she ate and slept in peace in the presence of the holy Ladies. <p>At that point Mohammad Al-Ameen (pbuh&) with his two uncles Abu Taleb, Abbass and Hamzah arrived at the scene. Mohammad(pbuh) stood before Fatimah Bint Assad his foster mother and streched out his arms and tooked the small child from her and smiled warmly <br>down at him. <p>The mother then proudly stated that she would name him Haider meaning 'Lion', but Mohammad(pbuh&hf) instead renamed him as Ali (as). He explained to Fatimah that he was instructed by Allah(swt). A name no one before him had ever been named before, and Fatimah Bint Al-Assad rejoiced and thank Allah(swt) for His true Blessing and help. Till this very day the miracle split of the stone blocks of The Kabah wall is clearly visible. <br>

[Guest]

Nizari,<p>"The mother then proudly stated that she would name him Haider meaning 'Lion', but Mohammad(pbuh&hf) instead renamed him as Ali (as). He explained to Fatimah that he was instructed by Allah(swt). A name no one before him had ever been named before, and Fatimah Bint Al-Assad rejoiced and thank Allah(swt) for His true Blessing and help. Till this very day the miracle split of the stone blocks of The Kabah wall is clearly visible."<p>I think the above paragraph may be difficult for non-Shias to understand as by their reckoning Muhammad was not aware of Allah until he attained prophethood ( at which time Ali was a young boy).<p><br>

[Guest]

What anajmi can't comprehend, probably because of having an intellect of not even a child nad more like an animal, is that there must have been some sort of esoteric and symbolic meaning to Imam Hazarat Ali's birth in the Kabbah. No one else has been born in this place. I am not sure about the details of the environment around the Rock/Temple (the Arab mandir) in those times. Maybe there were some houses, shelters, shops nearby.

[Guest]

<br>"THE ISLAMIC TRUTH"<p>If they believe in this story, why are they making fun fo story about Prophet's Journy to heavens?<p>

[Guest]

MF<p>You mean about the one where the Prophet(saw) ASCENDS to Heaven on the back of a white horse with a female face. <p>Jibrael also performed OPEN-CHEST surgery on the prophet to acclimatize him of the rigours of the Horse-back ride (MACH SPEED)to the Upper Heavens!

[Guest]

Hypocricy cannot be avoided by Hafeez or Nizari. They will reference hadiths to suit their stance...if the hadiths goes against...it is 7th century stories...and don't apply to today.<p>The story of Maulana Ali's birth is accepted...when the same sources also tell the story of the Prophet's physical ascension to heaven.<p>I guess only Nizaris get to pick and choose what they want. What luck.

[Guest]

<br>Thnk you Br. qiyam<p>Wasalaam<p>

[Guest]

Br qiyam,<p>I thought God gave man intellect so that he could choose between right and wrong etc. I thought only the Qur'an was the absolute truth. Are you suggesting that ahadith is nearly on par with it and one must not be selective about any hadith? I would dearly like your and Muslim First' view on the "infallibility" of ahadith.

[Guest]

Dear Gursevak,<br>God gave man intellect to understand His grand design...not our human grand designs. Quran is the absolute truth...and the teacher of that truth is His Nabi. We are told in the Quran to obey Allah and obey His rasul. Hadiths are the means by which we obey His Rasul. This is the reason we reference the teachings of the Prophet for this (the stuff the Nizaris call historical reference that don't apply anymore...unless they need to support their beliefs).<p>The intellect is a instrument Allah gave us to understand Him, His universe, ourselves. But this was not by trial and error or our own concoctions of "the meaning of life". Just as the instructor teaches us to drive...the instructor (the Prophet) teaches us to use our intellect in the manner Allah wanted us to.

[Guest]

Qiyam,<p>The hadith re: Miraj on a HORSEY with a women's face is an INSULT to people's intelligence! <p>If you feel so strongly about the injunctions of Quran & sunnah /Hadeeths then you & the KOTHARS are VIOLATING the na-mehrami issue and fiddling with loopholes. <p>After all:<br>7th century is ABOVE TIME & SPACE.<p>So make sure the Kothars follow & abide by it!