Are Abde Syedna Bohras doing Shirk?

[anajmi]

This question has been raised time and again for a decade on this forum. A simple question to abde bohras to determine if they are or not would be - and any abde Syedna bohra is welcome to answer -

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna?

[Al Zulfiqar]

This question has been raised time and again for a decade on this forum. A simple question to abde bohras to determine if they are or not would be - and any abde Syedna bohra is welcome to answer -

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna?

anajmi,

good question! now let us see the abde morons flocking to take up the challenge and answer your question.

[progpigs]

This question has been raised time and again for a decade on this forum. A simple question to abde bohras to determine if they are or not would be - and any abde Syedna bohra is welcome to answer -

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna?

anajmi,

good question! now let us see the abde morons flocking to take up the challenge and answer your question.

FIRST TO ADMIN: please read the highlited words before sending me any warnings!

To MUNAFIQ & MUSHRIQ: No, you cannot enter Jannah solely as we are not so pure (doing no sins)!! Therefore we need a source to get there!! and this is well explained in the Holy QURAN (research done)!!
And if you MORONS regret this answer then its better to wait for the JUDGEMENT DAY (where you will be thrown in fire ), before making any JUDGMENT ON YOUR OWN and proving yourself MUSHRIQ AGAIN!!

[murtaza2152]

This question has been raised time and again for a decade on this forum. A simple question to abde bohras to determine if they are or not would be - and any abde Syedna bohra is welcome to answer -

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna?

Walayat of Haq na Saheb (Today 52nd Dail Mutlaq) is necessary for entering in Jannat.
And Marifat of Panjatan Paak,Aimmat Taahereen and Duat Mutlaqeen....Salawat on All.

[Bigger]

This question has been raised time and again for a decade on this forum. A simple question to abde bohras to determine if they are or not would be - and any abde Syedna bohra is welcome to answer -

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna?

anajmi,

good question! now let us see the abde morons flocking to take up the challenge and answer your question.

ohho Again a baby crying loud.. ale ale chu thayu AZ u did that again, whr z ur papa insaap.. Insaap ur babyboy is stinking again..plss change his nappies.

And about Jannat, leave this topic for adults on this forum, however u can have lollypop of reform unless u grow up a little

[Bigger]

This question has been raised time and again for a decade on this forum. A simple question to abde bohras to determine if they are or not would be - and any abde Syedna bohra is welcome to answer -

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna?

YES Jannah solely with the grace of Allah (SWT), if ALLAH accept our good deeds and forgive our sins, but we are so prone to sins and ghafil (ignorant)due to our very (human) nature that the Shafa'at of Mohammad And Aale Mohammad is necessary, and Valayat, it is the spirit of all good deeds.

Thats the most simplest explanation and this ends this thread here, unless Hamaareen here willing to add some crap as a result of there personal hatred and grudge on AALE MOHAMMAD.

[progpigs]

@ Bigger

Dey will surely doo tht! start stinking in the topic agn

[Al Zulfiqar]

pee-pee, aziz, murtu, bigger moron et al,

i had mentioned that ABDE MORONS would come flocking, are you guys abde morons?

your replies conclusively prove that you are all shameless kafirs. allah has categorically forbidden intercessors when he judges you on the day of qayamat. they will be of no use to you. in fact, because you believed in false gods and dishonest godmen, allah will all the more hasten your departure to hell. your contention is that you can sin, loot, womanise, drink, steal, utter threats and abuses, indulge in shirk etc all you want, but your blind faith in syedna will still take you to jannah??????

if syedna can take retards to heaven, then pigs and donkeys can fly..!!!

[Tariq]

In the Name of the Most Gracious,

Judgement is ultimately reserved for Allah only and it is our Lord who can determine whether we will enter the eternal bliss or the burning fire. We are told by the Lord of the Worlds in the last verse revealed to the seal of the Prophets (PBUH):

This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.” (5;3)

As long as we follow the Qu'ran and follow the principles and practices of the House of the Prophet (Panjatan Pak AS) we can never be misled and belief and following of the current dai is certainly not required for Allah to bestow his mercy upon us. Anybody who believes that it requires a human's message to be allowed entry into jannat has completely defamed the face of Islam. If the Dai represented practices which were in full concordance to the practices of our religion it could be argued that he bestows guidance which helps us to follow Islam at the time it was perfected. However, I find this difficult to appreciate since the practice of today's orthodox is somewhat away from Islamic jurisprudence. I cannot but help notice the photos of the Dai in every room of every Bohra family, I cannot help but notice the extravagant and wasteful celebrations for the Dai's 100th birthday, I cannot help but notice the continuing demand of money from every rich and poor Bohra family, I cannot help but notice that the Dai who lives today did not bestow a 'blessed hankerchief' to my father because he did not have money to give salaams, I cannot help but notice that the Dai is remembered more than Allah or the Panjatan Pak (AS), I cannot help but notice the bowing and kissing of a human's feet, I cannot help but notice the front lines of prayer for sale in Bohra masjids, I cannot help but notice every footnote of every Bohra communication requesting Bohra's to pray to continue the Dai's life until the day of Qayamat (when it is said in the Qu'ran that EVERY soul shall taste death), I cannot help but notice the Bohra poor begging for money, I cannot help but notice the undignified methods of ex-communication where a SON cannot attend a father's funeral, I cannot help but notice the Amil's being unable to entertain any of my questions concerning religion, I cannot help but notice a a hierarchy in priesthood that goes against the very fabric of Shia islam, I cannot help but notice the stark differentiation we make between ourselves and others' who testify to the glorious shahadah, I cannot help but notice the VAST photos of 'Mumineen' raising their hands towards the Dai as if he was the Ordainer of Our Destiny.

You desecrate the very words 'Bismillahir Rahmaanir Raheem' when one believes following of the Dai is required to enter jannat. You undermine the great Mercy of Allah and you attribute to a human the attribute God owns.

Amir-Ul-Mumineen tells us:

1) "One who imagines himself to be all-knowing will surely suffer on account of his ignorance." (The Amils of today can never be wrong. They are always right, are they not? When did you last challenge an Amil? Have you ever asked a question to the Dai where you have recieved wisdom? If so, post!)

2) "Some people praised Maulana Ali AS) on his face. He replied, "Allah knows me very well and I also know myself more than you. Please, Lord ! make me better than what they imagine me to be and please excuse those Weaknesses of mine which they are not aware of".

3) "If you understand Allah's Majesty, then you will not attach any importance to the creatures."

4) "Blessings are for the man who humbles himself before Allah, whose sources of income are honest, whose inten- tions are always honorable, whose character is noble, whose habits are sober, who gives away in the cause and in the Name of Allah, the wealth which is lying surplus with him, who controls his tongue from vicious and useless talk, who abstains from oppression, who faithfully follows the traditions of the Holy Prophet and who keeps himself away from innovation in religion."

5) "One, who serves a person from whom he gets no reci- procal performance of duties, in fact, worships him."

6) "One who comes into power often oppresses."

I am a Shia of Maulana Ali (AS). I am a Muslim. Think and ponder but don't do it whilst you stare at the photo of a created being.

I pray that Allah will keep us on the path of righteousness.

Servant of Islam.

[Bigger]

u giving ur fingers good exercise. Man read my post and try to relate ur post to the question asked here. Posting big big doesnt make a sense, everybody here is fed up of complaining cum philosophical cum sugar quoted hatred towards a particular sect called bohra. This whole forum is turned into negative planet revolving around day to day news of dai and his subordinates. The issue here is to blame highest post in most innovative way.
Unfortunately man u have failed to make any sensible point here nor ur post seems relevant here.

[anajmi]

Bigger moron,

Tariq raises excellent points in his post. His points are so good and relevant that you were unable to dispute a single point.

Let me ask the abde Syedna bohras one more question. Will Allah be able overrule the Dai on the day of judgment?

[profastian]

Bigger moron,

Tariq raises excellent points in his post. His points are so good and relevant that you were unable to dispute a single point.

Let me ask the abde Syedna bohras one more question. Will Allah be able overrule the Dai on the day of judgment?

Let us turn the tables on them. Before asking this question, what do you proggy morons think will happen on the judgment anyway. Allah descending from the heavens to the earth, residing on a throne and dishing out judgements? I ask this because your question is intrinsically linked with mine. If we don't believe the same thing as to what will happen on the day of judgement, then your question and our answers become irrelevant.

[truebohra]

This question has been raised time and again for a decade on this forum. A simple question to abde bohras to determine if they are or not would be - and any abde Syedna bohra is welcome to answer -

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna?

Grace of Allah is only availably when you recognize the Imam -U- Zaman. Who will help you recognize the Imam of time in Satr, ofcourse but Dai-zaman. A person dies a death of mushrik if he fails to know the Imam of his daur. BUT this is a Dawoodi Bohra belief. Whether you refute it or accept is of no consequence to us, the Dawoodi Bohras.

[murtaza2152]

This question has been raised time and again for a decade on this forum. A simple question to abde bohras to determine if they are or not would be - and any abde Syedna bohra is welcome to answer -

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna?

Grace of Allah is only availably when you recognize the Imam -U- Zaman. Who will help you recognize the Imam of time in Satr, ofcourse but Dai-zaman. A person dies a death of mushrik if he fails to know the Imam of his daur. BUT this is a Dawoodi Bohra belief. Whether you refute it or accept is of no consequence to us, the Dawoodi Bohras.

قال رسول الله:"من مات ولم يعرف إمام زمانه مات ميتة جاهليّة
The Messenger of Allah: "Who died and did not know the Imam of Time died Life of Jahilya.

We know our Imam and Dai......

[labbaikyaHussain]

Grace of Allah is only availably when you recognize the Imam -U- Zaman. Who will help you recognize the Imam of time in Satr, ofcourse but Dai-zaman. A person dies a death of mushrik if he fails to know the Imam of his daur. BUT this is a Dawoodi Bohra belief. Whether you refute it or accept is of no consequence to us, the Dawoodi Bohras.

قال رسول الله:"من مات ولم يعرف إمام زمانه مات ميتة جاهليّة
The Messenger of Allah: "Who died and did not know the Imam of Time died Life of Jahilya.

We know our Imam and Dai......

sunni,wahabi,shia,jafari,ismaili,alavi,sulaimani,dawoodi,deobandi infact christian and jews all claims this.

[blue]

suppose on judgement day 5 persons are there in the que to enter jannat, pope , sai baba , asharam bapu, sayyedna ,jonas salk.. who will get entry in jannat , first and with higher darajat? my answer is jonas salk because he may not be a very religious person but he invented polio vaccine that brought health and cheers to millions of children and surprisingly he did not patent it though he might have earned great wealth. i think so because my allah is very smart . problem is that people think that GOD is some one very bhola bhala and so they think they can fool him .

[labbaikyaHussain]

suppose on judgement day 5 persons are there in the que to enter jannat, pope , sai baba , asharam bapu, sayyedna ,jonas salk.. who will get entry in jannat , first and with higher darajat? my answer is jonas salk because he may not be a very religious person but he invented polio vaccine that brought health and cheers to millions of children and surprisingly he did not patent it though he might have earned great wealth. i think so because my allah is very smart . problem is that people think that GOD is some one very bhola bhala and so they think they can fool him .

do u know no body can doi any thinf without the help of Allah,if jonas invented vaccines that is also coz of help from Allah,may be he was angel we never know,so there is no question to doubt if he will enter jannah or not.

[anajmi]

Abde Syedna Bohras,

My Questions were very simple.

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna? - abde syedna bohra answer was no. So the abde bohras are mushrik as they have associated a partner with Allah. The grace of Allah almighty is not enough to take the abde syedna bohras to jannah!!

My second question was
Will Allah be able overrule the Dai on the day of judgment? - Not one abde Syedna bohra worth his salt has the courage to answer this question.

[truebohra]

Abde Syedna Bohras,

My Questions were very simple.

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna? - abde syedna bohra answer was no. So the abde bohras are mushrik as they have associated a partner with Allah. The grace of Allah almighty is not enough to take the abde syedna bohras to jannah!!

My second question was
Will Allah be able overrule the Dai on the day of judgment? - Not one abde Syedna bohra worth his salt has the courage to answer this question.

Anajmi, Wahabis has always shouted 'Shirk' 'Shirk' at the drop of the hat. As i earlier said it is of no consequence to you and us about what we or u believe. As per our belief you are mushriq & according to yours we. so there is a status quo. You are followers of Wahab and we the Ahlul Bayt & thier progenies. So our answer would not help you to prove/dis prove anything.

You should not ask this question on supposedly 'Dawoodi Bohra' forum. i am 100% sure you are aware of their belief system and know the answer.

[murtaza2152]

Abde Syedna Bohras,

My Questions were very simple.

Do you believe that you can enter Jannah solely with the grace of Allah almighty, without any help from your Syedna? - abde syedna bohra answer was no. So the abde bohras are mushrik as they have associated a partner with Allah. The grace of Allah almighty is not enough to take the abde syedna bohras to jannah!!

My second question was
Will Allah be able overrule the Dai on the day of judgment? - Not one abde Syedna bohra worth his salt has the courage to answer this question

Whatever Allah wills is the will of Dai,,And whatever Dai wills is the will of Allah.......
This is the answer of all your questions......

[anajmi]

murtaza,

Congratulations. You have just shown that abde syedna bohras believe that Allah does not have the power to overrule the Dai on the day of judgment. You have clearly proven that abde syedna bohras are Dai worshippers and are hence mushriks. Thank you for clarifying it.

[truebohra]

murtaza,

Congratulations. You have just shown that abde syedna bohras believe that Allah does not have the power to overrule the Dai on the day of judgment. You have clearly proven that abde syedna bohras are Dai worshippers and are hence mushriks. Thank you for clarifying it.

Anajmi, the argument rest with my earlier post. We are Dawoodi Bohras & you a Wahabi sunni, What we/you believe should not of any importance to you or me.

[anajmi]

Correct. What you believe doesn't matter to me at all. I am just trying to clarify what you believe. You believe that the Dai has the same authority as Allah and Allah cannot overrule the Dai, which makes you guys mushriks.

[progpigs]

@anajmi

givin any clarification from ur sife about us dusnt suite you!!

"A MUSHRIQ LIKE YOU WILL SEE & JUDGE OTHERS AS MUSHRIQ TOO" coz thts wat u r and thts wat ur belief system is!!

[truebohra]

Correct. What you believe doesn't matter to me at all. I am just trying to clarify what you believe. You believe that the Dai has the same authority as Allah and Allah cannot overrule the Dai, which makes you guys mushriks.

As i said earlier, you need not clarify anything. Duats are Dai of Allah, Dai' Allah. He does whatever Imanm wishes. Imam is the noor of allah, reflected in the Night of Satr by Dai.
We are not a hypocrites and proudly confirm our belief. So you need not have to do any zahmat of proving anything.

[Al Zulfiqar]

what has the world of abdes come to???!!

now they proudly proclaim their shirk and kufr!!!!

but wait, on the other hand they persist in calling themselves "muslims".

i am aghast at the level of shamelessness that the abdes under the leadership of a senile syedna have resorted to.!! words fail me. the manner and direction in which this community is going does not bode well for their future in the muslim world. the time is not very far away when these mushriks will be declared apostates and blasphemers and disowned by the entire islamic world just like the qadianis and subjected to persecution by the hardliners like saudis and other muslim countries.

good! i suppose one should pray that they continue to increase their strident skirk so that they suffer the fate which they deserve.

[truebohra]

what has the world of abdes come to???!!
now they proudly proclaim their shirk and kufr!!!!

"Duats are Dai of Allah, Dai' Allah. He does whatever Imanm wishes. Imam is the noor of allah, reflected in the Night of Satr by Dai"
Can you point out what is Shirk in the statement?

[progpigs]

@truebohra

AZ is a MUSHRIK and he will see only SHIRK in our statement

very soon this mushrik will be claiming a NONSENSE point and saying WE R DOING SHIRK

anyways he has well explained their (reformist) future... relating to qadianis!!.. gud gud AZ ur doing a gud job! tell us more aabout u and ur future.. spclly S.Insaf & Engineeer's

[Muslim First]

He does whatever Imanm wishes.

DAI and his family is screwing you and abdes left , right,front and back. Is that your non existant hiding Imam wishes?

[ozmujaheed]

Most definetely ..I had the mis-fortune of picking the live relay transmission on my intelligence scanner..

Seeing last Saturday Sayedna on a throne ...thousands of Adbes being pushed around and almost stampede by zadas as they waved gold tray wadhavnu...

Later on the queu was paushed 2 meters and people just bowed and a white bearded zada snatched the envelopes and trays

If that is not human worship tell me what is ?

Where was the Sayedna getting up and saying this is not acceptable and Abdes are crossing the line ...he was quite concious because he was recognising the non-Bohras and Yemenis and flaterring them with a pat on the shoulder..the rest of the Abdes were being dragged around by the bag straps and pushed around as if it was normal...

..shocking.. I am loosing hope such that Abdes have stooped so low it will take another 100 years and miracle to reform them.

History teaches us and so has recent Libyan events..Gandhi type soft opposition and blogging on this site will not change the 9 lakh Bohris to drop their pagan beliefs

The only way