Are All Ahadith Authentic ?

[ghulam muhammed]

reached us through a chain of narrators. The Quran described the Prophet as the Muallim (teacher) of Allah's Book and its Wisdom and as such his sayings and doings constitute an exposition of the philosophy of the Quran. This also means that no Prophetic saying or deed can go against the Quran, for how could the Messenger violate the very Message he brought?

But what if there are Ahaadith which contradict the Quran? Of course they need to questioned and their authenticity examined because it is possible such traditions may have wrongly attributed to the Prophet what he did not say or do. Muslim scholars have rejected several Aahaadith on this basis without their Eeman or motives being questioned. Therefore, it must be understood that rejection of questionable Ahaadith does not amount to the rejection of the Prophet. It only amounts to a rejection of unreliable reports wrongly attributed to our beloved Prophet.

Examples of doubtful Aahaadith

1.The missing verse

2. Humans made in the Image of God?

3. Will Allah put his foot in Hell?


http://twocircles.net/node/237414

[ghulam muhammed]

The Role of Hadees in the Formation of Sharia

If Quran is a text, Hadees is an explanation. If principles have been described in Quran, Hadees has the development of its components. People who say, they will understand’ what Sharia is only through Quran are misguiding themselves. No doubt, Quran is the primary and real source but many of the Ayats in it are unclear and vague which need description and explanation. For example the order of Namaz in Quran is not clear. It neither has the numbers of ‘Rika’ats nor the description of how to offer it. It does not also mention the appropriate time of Namaz. Same is the case with ‘Zakat’. It neither mentions exact quantity of amount when Zakat becomes a ‘farz’ nor is there any particular amount mentioned to be disbursed. Other orders of Sharia do also fall in the same category. Quran Kareem has the laws in it but its practice or implementation requires further elucidation and explanation. This is where Hadees comes into picture. Hadees carries explanations and clarification of every command in the Quran.

Had Sahaba Keram not been in the service of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) all through his life time and had they not asked and enquired the descriptions and explanations of every command of Quran, how would practicing them have been possible. Either all of us would have practiced as per our own knowledge and understanding or making our illiteracy an excuse would not have practiced at all. Contrary to it Sahaba Keram assembled all the details and descriptions given by Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in a way that the world got shocked of the strong management and security of every word which Prophet (pbuh) described. Could Sahaba Keram have wasted any single moment of their lives for a meaningless job?

They certainly knew that it is not possible to understand the orders revealed in the Quran by Allah unless explained and described by Rasool (pbuh) or till they themselves do not see Prophet (pbuh) practicing the commands himself.

Sahaba Keraam (RA), Muhaddeseen (experts in Hadees) and Fuquaha (jurists) dedicated their lives in understanding, explaining and describing Fiqh (jurisprudence) but then came such a sect which described all the hard work to be worthless, saying that Quran has all the necessary descriptions and guidelines and none of its exhortations require any explanation from Nabi Kareem (pbuh).


http://www.newageislam.com/islamic-ideo ... ria/d/6645

[sixfeetunder]

The one about Allah's leg in hell always manages to crack me up. *Thud* *Thud*

[ghulam muhammed]

Excerpt of an article found on the internet :-

I've been a student of Hadeeth literature for more than three years . Analytically , critically and subjectively reading, material called the " Sahih books " and also the four books of the Shi'i sect including the Nahajal Balagha . This sectarian view among the Muslims arises from opinions , gathered from books other than the Qur'an .

I've been searching for answers for a little more than two and half decades , then came across some material from Al-Azhar university Cairo . This person is the Deen or head of the university , in correspondence with another stalwart Alim . The first question this Stalwart Alim asks the Deen is " - The first generations of Muslims did not follow the Sunni Imams that is the Four imams of the Sunni sect . (2) the doors of Ijthehad were open among the Muslims and their rulers , why were they closed. Other then the Qurani'c concept , man made opinions were made compulsory ?

The messenger of Allah passed away in eleven Hijri. ( 11th Hijra )

a) Abu Hanifa ( no proper name , only father of Hanifa ) born in 80AH died in 150 AH.
b) Imam malik , born in 95AH died in 169 AH .
c) Imam Shafii born in 150 AH died in 204 AH .
d) Imam ibn Hanbal ( no name father , son of Hanbal ) born in 164 AH died in 241 AH .
then comes the supreme clergy of Arabia , from whom the supreme Muttawa bin baaz took inspiration . Ashari born in 270 AH died in 302 AH . The first three generations of early Muslims did not follow these four Imams , they followed the Taabin and tabe-taabin .

Then comes the era of the Six great collectors and compilers of Hadith literature .
*) Imam Bukhari ( Mohammed ibn Ismail Bukhari from Bukhara then Faras (Persia ) = Iran now .
*) Imam Muslim ( Muslim ibn al Hijjaj al Qushyasi from Nishapur Iran ( Faras )
*) Imam Tirmizi from the city of Tarmind = Faras , Iran .
*)Imam abu Dawud ( no name - only father of ) from the city of seestan =Iran then Faras.
*) Ibn -e - Maaja ( no name - only son of ) from Qizween =Iran then Faras .
*) Imam Abdur Rahman Nasssi from Nassa ,Khuransan = Faras .

One will observe , none of these persons are of Arab origin . Then comes the surprising aspect of all , Imam Bukhari himself claims , that at the age of mere TEN he set out to collect and compile traditions of the holy prophet .

Then he adds one more interesting aspect to it.

He claims , for every tradition he heard he required two witness , then he would perform ablution , pray two raka nafil Namaz then make note of these traditions .( sayings of the prophet) In his own words , he collected more than Eight lakh traditions ! He then sat down to SIFT them , thereby discarding more than eight lakh traditions , presumably claiming six thousand Hadiths as authentic , out of which two thousand are repetitions , that means only four thousand are firm and authentic . So also the five others .

By what manner of measurement or judgement Bukhari discarded eight lakh traditions remain a mystery ? ( in his own word : if one rejects , even one tradition of the prophet ceases to be a Muslim ) Was it to imply that he was not ?

Now comes the real eye opener : who and where were the sources for these six imams ?

According to this correspondence from the head of Al-Azhar university , Cairo ,Sunni Alim Shaykh Salim al-Bishri , says ,The other Alim with whom he corresponded claims , these six Imams never travelled to Arabia nor Medina but to Kufah now part of Iraq , which then was a Satellite town of the Zoroastrian Persian ( Faras ), which had not forgiven the messenger of Islam nor the Arabs for destroying their ancient Zoroastrian Persian culture . Persia Now Iran was then a world power. Neither the Jews forgave , for being driven out of Medina and Khyber .

The soil of Kufah was then the hot bed of the Khariji people ( hypocrites ) who would claim to have become Muslims for opportunities then renounce that they had become Muslim . They were the first innovators among the Muslims . The apostate among the Muslims had adopted the first name Khariji , then Rafidi and then the first Shia . from wherein the concept of Shi'ism started .

Time now for some real hard facts :the other Alim - Abd al Husayn Sraraf-al Din claims he has a list of more than hundred names of Kufi Shi'i scholars , who were the actual source for the six Imama of Sunna to learn ,collect and compile their traditions from .

Here are some of their names :-
* Aban ibn Taghlib, ibn Riyah : Qari or reciter of the Quran , a disciple of Imam Zain al-Abidin . Muslim writers of Sunna : Abu Dawud , Tirmidhi , Nasai and ibn- Majah have taken traditions for their Sahih .
* Ibrahim ibn Yazid, ibn Amr ibn Aswad ibn amral-Nukhai the Jurist of Kufah .
* Ahmed ibn Mufaddal ibn al Kufi al Hafri .
* Ismail ibn Aban al Azadi al Kufi al Warraq : was a teacher and Shaykh of Bukhari .
* Ismail ibn Zakariya, Khalqani al Kufi : the authors of the six books of Sahih have borrowed his traditions for their books .
* Ismail ibn Abbad, ibn Abbas al Taliqani : he was the vazir under the Abbasid Khalifa Mu'ayid-al-Dawla Wlami . Taliqani being the first shi'i rose to the rank of VAZIR for two reasons , first for being a Shi'i and then belonging to the princely family of the powerful Zoroastrain family the Buwayhiyah family of Persia .
* Ismail ibn Abd al Rahman ibn Karimah the famous commentator known as Al-Suddi : he was the author who severely criticized the first and second Khalifa of Islam .
Tirmidhi , Abu Dawud , ibn maaja and Nasai have taken traditions from him .
* Harith ibn Abdullah al Hamdani :
* Habib ibn Abu Tahbit al asadi al Kahili al Kufi ; the six books of traditions have without restraint borrowed from him even after knowing that he was a stauch Shi'i .
* Al Hasan ibn Hayy whose real name was Salih ibn salih Hamdani :He was a great critic of Uthman.
* Hammad ibn isa al Juhani al kufi : he was assigned an abbreviation Ta Qaf for the numerous times the sunna writers borrowed traditions from him .
* Himran ibn A'yun , an abbreviation was coined for him as Qaf .
* Khalid ibn mukhlad al Qutwani abu al Haytam al Kufi : A Shaykh , a teacher and mentor of Bukhari . Bukhari has taken traditions directly from him .
* Zayd ibn habab al Hasan al Kufi al Tamimi : A pillar of Kufi traditions .
* Sulayman ibn Surd al Khuza'i al Kufi : one of the great shi'i form Kufa . Sahi Bukhari has taken tradition for his SAHIH .
*Sulayman ibn al Taymi al Basri .all the writers of the six books have borrowed from his traditions .
* Sha'bah ibn al Hujjaj surname abu Bastam : Iraqi : six books of Sahih have taken his traditions .
* Sa sa ah ibn Sawhan ibn Hajar al Abdi al Kufi : he is one of the writers of the battle of Jamal
*Ubaydullah ibn Musa al Abasi al Kufi ; teacher of Bukhari .Bukhari mentions in his Sahih of him as one of his teachers .
* Muhammed ibn Abdullah al Hakim al Naysaburi : he was a hafiz and recorder of traditions. It is he who says that the holy prophet was born CTRCUMCISED and smiling , he was a staunch Shi'i who held firmly to the claim that Ali was the actual successor of the prophet .
* Muhammed ibn Muslim ibn Ta'ifi : the first author of the book of WUDU = ablutions .
* Nuh ibn Qays ibn al hadani al Tahi al Basri : author of the book on drinks .
* Hisham ibn Ammar ibn Nasir ibn Maysarah abu al Walid : author of the books of sales , measures , war drinks and qualities ; He was the teacher of Bukhari and Bukhari has incorporated his traditions under those chapters or books .

The list is exhaustive , some of these should suffice to give an idea of where these traditions originated in the name of the holy messenger of Allah .Perhaps these are without prejudice and without bias . this should answer many questions about the authenticity of the books of traditions .

[ghulam muhammed]

Hadith Is Not a Divine Scripture of Islam – a la Qur’an

Question 1. Will it be correct to claim the following today?

• The sun goes down every day under the Throne (of God) and takes permission to rise again [Vol.4/ Acc.421].

• Fever is from the heat of hell [Vol.7/ Acc. 619, 620, 621, 622/Volume 7],

• Cupping operations or branding (cauterization) offer best for healing of wounds [Vol.7/ Acc. 584, 585 and 587, 605],

• One should run away from the leper as one runs away from the lion. [Vol.7/ Acc.608/],

• No contagious disease is conveyed to others without Allah's permission

• The majority of the dwellers of hell-fire will be women [Acc.28, 301/Vol.1, Acc. 541/Vol.2].

• A woman (`that is sterile or discontented or impudent') can be a bad omen [Vo.7/ Acc.649, 666.]

Q.2 Can anyone claim infallibility of the following Ahadith which are self-contradictory

• Hajj is redemption of all past sins [Vol.2, Acc. 596]. The reward for hajj is commensurate to the hardship undertaken for it [Vol.3, Acc. 15].

• The dog is a clean animal as dogs used to roam about the Prophet’s mosque and even urinate there [Vol.1, Acc. 174]. The dog is an unclean animal, and so if a dog eats from a container, it is to be washed seven times to purify it before human use [Vol.1, Acc. 173].

• The dog is a blessed creature as a man was promised Paradise by God because he brought water from a well to quench the thirst of a dog [Vol.1, Acc. 174]. The dog is an accursed creature as its sale is forbidden [Vol.3, Acc. 439, 440].

• The Prophet forbade the killing of women and children [Vol.4, Acc. 257, 258]. The Prophet tacitly approved the killing of pagans at night when women were also exposed (and could be killed during attack) [Vol.4, Acc. 256].

3. Can anyone claim eternal validity of the following Ahadith that were specific to the era?

Muslims must not carry the Qur’an to a hostile land [Vol.4, Acc. 233],

They must not keep agricultural implements at homes [Vol.3, Acc. 514], take the price of a dog [Vol.3, Acc. 439, 440], or sell fruits until they are ripe and red [Vol.1, Acc. 565]

4. Can anyone claim that the Hadith that project the Prophet as a sadist and sexually obsesses person as quoted in my last article [2] divinely revealed?

The answer to the above four simple questions is “No”

5. Did the Prophet show any of the various miracles as great many Ahadith claim?

The answer in ‘No’ because the Qur’an which is the infallible word of God repeatedly refutes such notion (6:37, 11:12, 13:7, 17:90-93, 21:5, 25:7/8, 29:50), though it claims its own miraculous character [1].

Now let us quote some of the most eminent scholars of Islam including the compilers of the Hadith:

1. Imam al-Bukhari: “Why do people impose conditions which are not in Allah’s book (Kitab il Lah)? Whoever imposes such conditions as are not in Allah’s Laws (Kitab il Lah), then that condition is invalid even if he imposes one hundred such conditions, for Allah’s conditions (as stated in the Qur’an) are truth and more valid.”[Acc. 364, 735/Vol.3].

2. Imam Muslim: "If we discuss about all those accounts which are held authentic (Sahih) before the learned, and suspect by a critical scholar (who demands a proof of personal meeting between the narrators and transmitters of Hadith in each generation), - we would simply be tired (because they are so large in number)." …‘This argument is novel in its approach, and it is wrong that early scholars did not believe in this. Neither is its denial by those who came later, any ground for its repudiation... and God is there to help repudiate what is wrong in the religion of the learned and I trust in Him” – Imam Muslim [Concluding pages of Muqaddimah of his compilation]

3. Shibli Noumani: “Caliph Umar is reported to have remarked: Fanan Shaqaluhum Jar’rethul Qur’ana (Do not mix things with the Qur’an), and Wa Qil’lur Rawa’ayata Un Rasul’illahe” (Quote sparingly from the Prophet). [Shibli Noumani, al Faruq, 1898, Karachi reprint 1991]

4. Yusuf Guraya records, on the strength of al-Tabari:4

“The seven jurists of Madinah were primarily Fuqaha as their epithet suggests, and it was only secondarily that they related to Ahadith. They were Sa'id b. al-Musayyib (d. 93 A.H.)... These were the people who laid down the foundations of Madinese Fiqh. They were not strictly traditionalist, and the majority of them preoccupied themselves with juridical opinions and Fiqh, rather than Hadith.” [Yusuf Guraya, Origins of Islamic Jurisprudence, Delhi 1992, p. 29/30]

Conclusion: The above illustrations are more than enough to establish that the Hadith could not be divinely revealed – parallel or complementary or even remotely synergetic to the Qur’an as the article claims. Any further elaboration, which can no doubt be added, will, however, be like killing the scarecrow and tax the readers. Indeed we need the Hadith to know the ways the Prophet performed the Islamic rituals like prayer, fasting and hajj but we cannot consider it divine or even indirect revelation (Wah’i) because then we will make a gross error by elevating what is fallible and historically derived, era specific to the level of divinity – an open shirk.

The Qur’an challenges its audience successively “to produce a discourse (hadith) like this, if they are truthful” (52:34); “to forging ten or producing a single chapter like it (11:13, 2:23)” and warned them that they can never do it (2:24). It further claims that it is of such a literary grandeur that only God Almighty could be its Author (10:37).

http://newageislam.com/islamic-ideology ... n/d/100996

[ghulam muhammed]

Quran v hadith: a philosophical analysis

It should be a caveat here that I do not, in this analysis, represent the whole Quranist community (ie. Muslims who reject the authority of hadith) but rather only myself. It should also be noted that there are hadith which are parallel to Quranic norms and values, and so my analysis cannot be taken to include them. However, the corpus of hadith is an amorphous body of information with a mass of contradictions, so my focus will be on hadith which are deemed the most authentic yet quite clearly contradict the Quran both in meaning and in practice of the traditionalists (Sunnis).

Let us begin with the first point: the need for a clergy in Islam. Should Islam even have a clergy, let alone one which should be obeyed without question? The Quran is unequivocally clear on this issue: that religious clergy can become lords besides Allah (9/31) and that most of them will distract us from the path of Allah while amassing wealth (9/34). When the Quran invites us to contemplate it (47/24), it does not mention that we need a barrage of qualifications in order to do so, nor does it ask us to consult any scholars.

If we compare this with hadith literature, we will find that it is necessary to consult a clergy. We are told that the ulama are the inheritors of the Prophet. If the Prophet was a leader and an adjudicator, then the ulama must be called upon to do the same, hence the “kepimpinan ulama” idea. We are also told that whoever interprets the Quran according to his opinion, even if he is correct, is still wrong. Another hadith tells us anyone who does this will enter hell.

Interestingly, however, there is one sunna of the Prophet the ulama rarely follow, that is accepting remunerations for their role. In that capacity, the ulama contravene the Prophet explicitly.

The second angle we need to consider is that of personal responsibility. Beginning with the Quran, we find that every one of us will have to perform good deeds for ourselves. These deeds will be considered and its results shown to us eventually (99/7-8). No one can bear the load of others (35/18).

This is not true with hadith literature which enshrines the concept of intercession. We are told that Prophet Muhammad will intercede for his ummah on judgement day. His intercession will even happen for sinners and so, he is effectively overruling Allah himself with this privilege. This is because Allah has deemed that it is our acts which will save our souls. Furthermore, it is ironic that according to the Quran, there is no intercession at all on judgement day. This assertion is repeated three times in chapter 2 of the Quran (in verses 48, 123 and 254). Prophet Muhammad is to disclaim any knowledge of what would happen to his people (46/9). Therefore once again, hadith is at odds with the Quran in terms religious philosophy, this time in terms of the personal nature of salvation.

Finally, we look at the issue of rituals and dogma. In mainstream Islam, if you ask anyone about the five pillars of Islam, you are very likely to get a set of dogmas which are said to define the religion. In other words, if you do not subscribe to these pillars, you are said to be “outside the fold of Islam”. These five pillars of Islam and six pillars of faith are clearly defined in a hadith where the archangel Gabriel visited the Prophet in human form in order to test his knowledge of them. If we notice, all these so-called pillars of Islam are ritual oriented and not social activism. Only zakat can be said to be socially effective and even then, one needs to pay a minuscule amount (2.5%) which will not enforce any social change .

This “confessional style” Islam is not to be found in the Quran at all. In fact, the Quran’s rendition of these concepts related to the five pillars are process-oriented and related to the development of the self. Take for example the shahada (witnessing of Allah). The Quran speaks of the shahada in chapter 3 verse 18 as something people with knowledge can attain. When one has enough relevant knowledge, one may join this witnessing which Allah and the angels perform. This is a spiritual process rather than a confession. Indeed the command to “say” isn’t there at all.

It is the same with ritual prayer (salat). While hadith literature speaks of things which “nullify” the prayer as if it were a product to be inspected, the Quran focuses on internalising the reading so that it prevents us from injustices and evil acts (29/45). This is why we find that even though religious schools force its pupils to pray, we still hear of violence and other crimes from such institutions. Prayer is not about form but rather substance, in my understanding of the Quran.

In summary, we should not automatically assume that the Quran and hadith complement each other in terms of philosophy. In fact, in some fundamental areas, they are actually antithetical to one another. For traditional Muslims, the Quran is said to be the primary source and so should override these false hadith, however “authentic” they are claimed to be. – March 25, 2015.

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/opin ... l-analysis

[anajmi]

The Quran speaks of the shahada in chapter 3 verse 18 as something people with knowledge can attain. When one has enough relevant knowledge, one may join this witnessing which Allah and the angels perform. This is a spiritual process rather than a confession. Indeed the command to “say” isn’t there at all.

The author probably hasn't understood the reasons for the confession. A person who accepts Islam doesn't need to declare it openly. Once it is in his heart, he is a muslim whether he says it openly or not. The reason people are asked to do it openly is so that the community knows that the person has now become a muslim. A new muslim needs help. If the community is aware of a new muslim they might reach out to him or her or he/she can now reach out to the community and no one will question his or her faith.

Should Islam even have a clergy, let alone one which should be obeyed without question? The Quran is unequivocally clear on this issue: that religious clergy can become lords besides Allah (9/31) and that most of them will distract us from the path of Allah while amassing wealth (9/34). When the Quran invites us to contemplate it (47/24), it does not mention that we need a barrage of qualifications in order to do so, nor does it ask us to consult any scholars.

The author is simply twisting the Quran to give weight to his own bias. The ayah of the Quran about referring to Allah, his prophet (saw) and those amongst us who are in authority is pretty well known. Ask the bohra Dai!! Ayahs of the Quran can be used by people to suite their own agenda when taken out of context. Arabs say that even the Shaitaan will present the Quran in his defense on the day of judgment.

Prayer is not about form but rather substance, in my understanding of the Quran.

The authors understanding is wrong. Ruku, Sujood, Qiyam, Dhikr are all mentioned clearly and multiple times in the Quran.

Sorry, but this author isn't going to convince anyone to give up hadith!!

[KA786110]

@ghulam muhammed
As usual thanks for sharing these insightful articles. Appreciate it.

There are valid Hadiths but bulk of them are suspect and totally made up.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

all salafi hadith are garbage

[anajmi]

There is a saying - bandar kya jaane adrak ka swaad. Applies to you perfectly.

[fayyaaz]

Meaning of the word authentic as applied to hadith is in 6 parts:

1. A Bukhari hadith is authentic if it is proved that it was authored by Bukhari, and no one else. That is all there is to it.

2. An authentic Bukhari hadith, if so proven, does not guarantee that it is absolutely genuine and absolutely true saying or behavior of Prophet or anyone else mentioned in the hadith's long chain of narrators.

3. For hadith to be absolutely true as in 2 above, all the narrators must have infallible memory. They may or may not have had infallible memory. In fact, evidence from ordinary humans is that most humans have fallible memories.

4. So, for anyone to believe that a hadith is absolutely genuine record of Prophet's life is akin to believing in the genuine existence of Narnia, Camelot, Hogwarts, Gargantua and such.

5. Fantasy is the stuff of life for all who cannot live the reality, like long-term (like 14 years long) participants on this forum.

6. If you want a genuine fantasy, I suggest you entertain yourselves by watching Interstellar instead.

[anajmi]

The more you post, the bigger idiot you show yourself to be. You should've stopped after your definition of shirk.

4. So, for anyone to believe that a hadith is absolutely genuine record of Prophet's life is akin to believing in the genuine existence of Narnia, Camelot, Hogwarts, Gargantua and such.

Really? How smart did you need to be to make that connection?

I think Hussain's talking horse (as discussed by the current Bohra infallible Dai) is much closer to Hogwarts and Narnia than Bukhari (RA).

[fayyaaz]

I think Hussain's talking horse (as discussed by the current Bohra infallible Dai) is much closer to Hogwarts and Narnia than Bukhari (RA).

Talking horse is not in Bukhari, I assume, so it is irrelevant for any discussion about authenticity of Bukhari(RA)*!

* (RA) = (May he be Ridiculed by Allah)

[anajmi]

But it is relevant to determine the authenticity of the Dai eh?

And here on this board, that is more important.

[KA786110]

The more you post, the bigger idiot you show yourself to be.

It takes one to know one.

[anajmi]

If that were the case, then all of us would be idiots. But only someone who is not an idiot would understand that.

[fayyaaz]

But it is relevant to determine the authenticity of the Dai eh?

If the Dai is proven to have quoted talking horse, then all you can say is that the attribution of the quote to the Dai is authentic.

If Bukhari is proven to be an author of a hadith about Prophet's behavior, then all you can say is that the attribution of the hadith to Bukhari is authentic.

To make a leap into saying that the talking horse and the hadith are genuine requires uncritical, fantasy-prone, gullible mind-set, all the stuff which bigots and fanatics like you exhibit and thrive upon. Too many hours spent listening to the Dai, reading Bukhari or viewing Harry Potter!

[anajmi]

So I guess you never trusted your mother about who your father was cause you are not amongst the ... whatever, right?

[anajmi]

If the Dai is proven to have quoted talking horse, then all you can say is that the attribution of the quote to the Dai is authentic.

Yes, the Dai is proven to have quoted talking horse. The attribution of the quote to the Dai is authentic. Hence, we can safely say that the Dai is not authentic.

[fayyaaz]

Yes, the Dai is proven to have quoted talking horse. The attribution of the quote to the Dai is authentic. Hence, we can safely say that the Dai is not authentic.

So, to follow your logic, dumbass:

Yes, Bukhari is proven to be the author of Hadith. The attribution of Hadith to Bukhari is authentic. Hence, we can safely say that Bukhari is not authentic.

[KA786110]

You guys and your conclusions. Amazing!!!

[anajmi]

I guess that is what makes me smarter than you. I can understand the difference between a hadith with a chain of narrators and years of study and a talking horse. Your dumbass doesn't. Your logic even made a bas....d out of you.

[KA786110]

One more gem in your collection of over 12K posts. If one goes through your posts, they can surely come up with a bestselling jokes book. You have now beaten Mulla Do Piyaza.

[fayyaaz]

You guys and your conclusions. Amazing!!!

Oh KA-Bismillah-Ali,

You must not take anajmi seriously. He is always good for a laugh, especially in his role as Quran-thumper

You should view my responses to him as an attempt to laugh him off. His trivial and egotistical mind deserves that at least.

[anajmi]

Well, at least I will be bestselling something. What good are you?

At least my mind doesn't lead me to doubt my own lineage eh?

[KA786110]

Well, at least I will be bestselling something. What good are you?

My creator knows what I am good at. You are already green with envy.

[KA786110]

You guys and your conclusions. Amazing!!!

Oh KA-Bismillah-Ali,

You must not take anajmi seriously. He is always good for a laugh, especially in his role as Quran-thumper

You should view my responses to him as an attempt to laugh him off. His trivial and egotistical mind deserves that at least.

I knew that Truly enjoy your responses.

[ghulam muhammed]

Hadith-based laws unnecessary, says Dr Mahathir Mohammed

The ex-PM laments over-reliance on Prophetic Traditions at the Quran's expense.

The misconception of Islam as a religion of oppression is partly caused by contemporary scholars’ over-reliance on the Prophetic Traditions at the expense of the message of the Quran, according to former prime minister Mahathir Mohamad.

“We seem to have rejected the Quran in favour of the Hadith,” he said in his keynote address at a Perdana Leadership Foundation forum today.

(“Hadith” is often translated as “Traditions”. The word is sometimes used to refer to only the sayings of the Prophet and sometimes to both his sayings and his practices. There are several authoritative collections of these, and scholars have traditionally classified them into “authentic”, “good”, “doubtful” and “false”.)

In a statement that is likely to invite brickbats from several quarters, Mahathir said injunctions from the Hadith were merely guidance and not meant to be enforced as law.

“The teachings, or the performance, or the traditions of the Prophet come after he had been given the message of Allah, which is recorded in the Quran,” he said.

“Between the two, it is obviously the Quran that is superior.”

Mahathir pointed out that stoning to death for fornication is not called for in the Quran, but only in the Hadith, which mentions the enforcement of such punishment on two occasions.

“Allah is merciful and compassionate,” he said. “One who is merciful and compassionate would not enjoy stoning people to death.”

Mahathir stressed that any Islamic law would have to be just. If it were unjust, he said, it would not be Islamic.

Thus, he said, he disagreed with the law that requires a woman to produce four witnesses to back her claim of being raped.

He said deviations from the message of the Quran had led to deviant behaviour among Muslims. He cited atrocities committed by organisations like the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria as well as the recent conviction of a Malaysian student in London for possession of child pornography.

“We used to have great scientists and mathematicians, but now our mathematicians are downloading 30,000 pornography images,” he lamented. (The convicted student was pursuing a mathematics degree.)

Mahathir also expressed his disagreement with the practice of turning fatwas into law.

Fatwas, he said, were merely opinions, and the laws derived from them were sometimes impractical and unnecessary. He gave the example of old fatwas that prohibited the use of light bulbs and motorised vehicles because they were invented by “infidels”.

“There’s no necessity to Islamise everything,” he said. “Of course, there are things that should be abstained from as they are forbidden in Islam, but there’s no reason to give unnecessary fatwas to Islamise them.”

http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/catego ... says-dr-m/

[KA786110]

A very rational and Islamic approach. Need more thinkers and speakers like that in Mid East kingdoms, Sheikhdoms, Fiefdoms etc.

Thank You Ghulam Muhammed.

[qutub_mamajiwala]

but the biggest problem is that the followers of ibn taimiyya, hasan al banna and mohd bin abdul wahab are as brain dead as our abdes.
both have lost the most precious thing bestowed to mankind by Allah which differentiates mankind from animal kingdom--that is rational thinking