Teachings of the Prophet Muhammed (saw)

[Dilber]

The thread is TEACHINGS OF PROPHET MUHAMMED (SAW) and this is a Muslim forum

For those interested in exhibiting their unnatural ways of living the web is full of relevant places.

In this forum we find it awfully disgusting when someone talks of being a gay.

[Admin]

We believe everyone has a right to one's sexual preference. One can talk about it on this forum if it is relevant to the subject. What we find disgusting is when participants call each other names and sit in judgement on matters which are completely personal and private.

Please desist from using bad language.

Admin

[Dilber]

Admn please note:

I am a senior member here but I usually remain silent. I was compelled to tell this person JC whatever I told him. Being a Muslim and a gay are diameterically opposite things and this thread did not seem a place . HOWEVER TO YOU THIS FORUM INDEED IS THE PLACE FOR GAYS ET AL. YOU ARE THE GREAT OWNERS OF THIS PLACE IF YOU HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH SUCH PEOPLE TALKING ABSOLUTE RUBBISH THEN I AM SORRY I WAS IN THE WRONG PLACE ALL ALONG. BETTER CALL THIS A GAY/LESBIAN BOHRA FORUM AND DONT TALK OF ISLAM.

REMOVE MY NAME FROM YOUR FORUM, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN SUCH COMPANY OF

[Dilber]

Three things before I leave you enlightened people:

1. Calling Names: A gay in the subcontinent is ofcourse called a GA*DOO or a LAUNDAY BAAZ. The enlightened and progressive Admn should not have found any name calling in this specially where the person in question says he is proud of it. There is NO OTHER word in the dictionary. GA*DOO is merely an identifying tag. Admn finds mere mention of the adjective disgusting how about the ACT ITSELF and THE PERSON the person who professes this and tells us of his pride in open. Isn't that disguting to Admn? I think Admn is childishly insonsistent and has expressed an opinion against the sprit of this place.

2. Private matters are not splashed over message boards on the web. If someone announces and shamelessly feels proud of being a GA*OO on a muslim message board then at least truth must be told.

3. Sitting in judgment: Well I thought this message board was a place run by Muslims who knew what judgments their religion has for GA**OOS.

Now rest in peace

[tahir]

JC was trying to discuss his sexual orientation in Islamic perspective. Though it was unconvincing, it was relevant to the thread. Islam also strongly prohibits charging or paying of interest on money as much as it prohibits homosexuality (though not sure about the latter). So if according to you, people who violate tenets of Islam should not participate in this forum, the first to be kicked out should be the ones who have stacked their money in Banks or have taken loans or have gotten their vehicles, homes etc. financed on interest money. And why stop at that. All the people who call themselves Dawoodi Bohras should be kicked out for violating almost all tenets of islam including prohibition of worshipping a human and doing "sajda" to mulla burhanuddin.

As a matter of fact, most of the gays and transvestites in the subcontinent happen to be muslims. The terms "laundeybaaz" and "ga*doo" both are urdu, and there are no equivalent words for them in hindi. Its not to say that this category of people are not found among Hindus but these words originated where they are needed most.

[tahir]

<small>[ 06-03-2005, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: Admin ]</small>

[Admin]

Dear Dilber,

We know you have been around on this Forum for a long time and we do value your participation. We would hate to see you go. Hope you'd reconsider your decision.

We can understand your passionate hatred for gays, and although we do not share your feelings we believe you have the right to your opinion. - and are free to express them here in a manner that is appropriate and acceptable.

By the same token, we also want you to understand that this is a free public Forum open to everybody - including gays - as long as they maintain a minimum standards of decency. If you think that this principle of openness and freedom turns this Forum into that for gays and lesbians, then it is your unfortunate interpretation. And you know that.

It is unreasonable of you to expect that gays must not exist and/or must not admit to being gay and/or must not be allowed to participate in this Forum. The "Muslim" nature of this Forum has nothing to do with the sexual orientation of a participant - as it has nothing to do with his or her social class, political affiliation, philosophical orientation, sartorial preference or any other such choices that one may make in life.

To each his/her own. The keyword is tolerance.

[mumineen]

Bravo! Admin.

Couldn't have said anything better ourselves.!

"The test of courage comes when we are in the minority. The test of tolerance comes when we are in the majority."
Ralph W. Sockman

[anajmi]

All from Bukhari

Volume 1, Book 1, Number 1:

Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab:

I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "The reward of deeds depends upon the intentions and every person will get the reward according to what he has intended. So whoever emigrated for worldly benefits or for a woman to marry, his emigration was for what he emigrated for."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 7:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said: Islam is based on (the following) five (principles):

1. To testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and Muhammad is Allah's Apostle.

2. To offer the (compulsory congregational) prayers dutifully and perfectly.

3. To pay Zakat (i.e. obligatory charity) .

4. To perform Hajj. (i.e. Pilgrimage to Mecca)

5. To observe fast during the month of Ramadan.

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 8:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Faith (Belief) consists of more than sixty branches (i.e. parts). And Haya (This term "Haya" covers a large number of concepts which are to be taken together; amongst them are self respect, modesty, bashfulness, and scruple, etc.) is a part of faith."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 9:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

The Prophet said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands. And a Muhajir (emigrant) is the one who gives up (abandons) all what Allah has forbidden."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 10:
Narrated Abu Musa:

Some people asked Allah's Apostle, "Whose Islam is the best? i.e. (Who is a very good Muslim)?" He replied, "One who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 11:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:

A man asked the Prophet , "What sort of deeds or (what qualities of) Islam are good?" The Prophet replied, 'To feed (the poor) and greet those whom you know and those whom you do not Know.

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 12:
Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "None of you will have faith till he wishes for his (Muslim) brother what he likes for himself."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 13:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

"Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my life is, none of you will have faith till he loves me more than his father and his children."

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 15:
Narrated Anas:

The Prophet said, "Whoever possesses the following three qualities will have the sweetness (delight) of faith:

1. The one to whom Allah and His Apostle becomes dearer than anything else.

2. Who loves a person and he loves him only for Allah's sake.

3. Who hates to revert to Atheism (disbelief) as he hates to be thrown into the fire."

[anajmi]

045.027 - 037

And Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; and on the day when the hour shall come to pass, on that day shall they perish who say false things.

And you shall see every nation kneeling down; every nation shall be called to its book: today you shall be rewarded for what you did.

This is Our book that speaks against you with justice; surely We wrote what you did,

Then as to those who believed and did good, their Lord will make them enter into His mercy; that is the manifest achievement.

As to those who disbelieved: What! were not My communications recited to you? But you were proud and you were a guilty people.

And when it was said, Surely the promise of Allah is true and as for the hour, there is no doubt about it, you said: We do not know what the hour is; we do not think (that it will come to pass) save a passing thought, and we are not at all sure.

And the evil (consequences) of what they did shall become manifest to them and that which they mocked shall encompass them.

And it shall be said: Today We forsake you as you neglected the meeting of this day of yours and your abode is the fire, and there are not for you any helpers:

That is because you took the communications of Allah for a jest and the life of this world deceived you. So on that day they shall not be brought forth from it, nor shall they be granted goodwill.

Therefore to Allah is due (all) praise, the Lord of the heavens and the Lord of the earth, the Lord of the worlds.

And to Him belongs greatness in the heavens and the earth, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.

[Hussain]

This is for Taher or Tahir , man you need to grow up a little.
You are anti kothar thats fine , thats your opinion.
But the way you made connection between the Dai and his advice to marry when children are the right age is absurd , stupid , dumb , rude and totally senseless.
Remember one thing getting married is not a joke and it requires real "Balls" to do it , I feel most of the confirmed bachelors really dont have the balls to go thru with it.

[akeel]

i agree....man tahir cant you find anything other than that same old line to say everytime......and what makes you so much of a great muslim.....am sure you don do anything that complies with the religion ...can just make out from your language so please before offering your worthy opinions on us being proper muslims u try and follow it yourslef. coz when you say that it doesnt really go with your image you portray.
And if you have any facts then please put them here. And about the fact that we worship people. Well if you had the brains to think you d know that the dai is the sole representative of the imam which in turn is the sole incharge of Allah. so when we offer our sajda its to the office he represents but i m sure you can never think that deep

[akeel]

and i say it once again tahir. If you have any facts then put them here i ll be more glad to debate with you any day of the week coz i know you don have any basis on all that you say.

[Agnostic]

Originally posted by akeel:
... the dai is the sole representative of the imam which in turn is the sole incharge of Allah. so when we offer our sajda its to the office he represents...

Extremely logical, I must say!

Though your English is a bit strange, I assume you do not mean Imam is in charge of Allah. You mean Imam is the sole representative of Allah.

So, since only the Dai represents Imam, and only the Imam represents Allah; then it follows that sajda to Dai is the sajda to Imam is the sajda to Allah.

I wish Allah had said it so simply in the Quran that in order to do sajda to him, you should do sajda to his representative!! But you, not Allah, knows best.

[akeel]

well i m sorry if i english is not par....i assume i made a few mistakes but you got the point......welll if everything was so clearly mentioned by allah then we wouldnt have all this factions here now would we......
and i assume you got all the teachings that allah wanted his followers to get perfectly. what an amazing student you are.....and frankly we consider oursleves to be more on the path of islam thanks to this representative. And Islam is a personal choice there isnt any proof of his presence but what the prophet has told us.

[Agnostic]

Originally posted by akeel:
...
and i assume you got all the teachings that allah wanted his followers to get perfectly. what an amazing student you are.....

Very true! That is why am an agnostic.

Like the Imam, Dai is also in purdah. Despite an absolute power of Allah almighty behind him -seeing he is His sole representative on earth - he is not coming out and telling all Muslims that Quran teaches sajda to him (that is the Dai) is mandatory (faraz) if they are to call themselves Muslims. Why is it necessary that this amazing gem of truth, he is only telling his own followers? About time he came out, don't you think?

I do not dispute the Dai's interpretation of Quran. I think if he has the truth, then he should proclaim it. Like it says in Quran, "Spread the word"! Or, is that not what the Quran says?

[JC]

Hey All,

Thanks Taher and Admin

I appreciate ur commets. Yes, my being gay was relevant as Anajmi and I had a discussion which somehow brought this topic and it was in relation to religion only. I did not had nor do i have now to propogate or preach homosexuality. But again Mr. Dilber took it so seriously and wrote so strong that I had to resist postings. I am a Muslim and want to participate in discussion and learn and educate myself. I told Mr. Dilber that I am proud on being what I am - he talked to dogs and bitches.

Anyways, here I am, again.

[Amicus Mellitus]

Anybody who claims to be a Muslim is supposed to believe in Quran and this is What Quran Says:

"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 4:16)" The punishment is 100 stripes. See]http://www.answering-christianity.com/houses.htm]See The Proof[/URL]

Amicus

[tahir]

I see that the concept of homosexuality is instantly repulsive to most of the ardent followers of Islam. No doubt that the religion strictly prohibits this orientation of sexuality but what amazes me is that the followers of the very same religion have the most intensive involvement with homosexuality. Here is a pretty interesting link:

Islam's Love-Hate Relationship with Homosexuality

Also I am eager to know what Islam has to say "specifically" about the following:

1. Incestuous behaviour (marrying among first cousins)
2. Paedophilic behaviour (marrying a 12 year old at the age of 49)

And if the first behaviour is allowed, should we take the words "brother" and "sister" in Islamic communities seriously when what we frequently see is girls who grow up calling you "brother" end up in your bed one day. This is in context of the paractice of addressing the few famale members on this board as "sister" and in turn being called as "brother" by them.

And if the second behaviour is allowed too, which one is more despicable- screwing an innocent child who doesnt even understand the meaning of marriage OR screwing an adult of ur own sex with his consent?

[Amicus Mellitus]

Tahir:

You must understand that religion, any religion, is a matter of heart, not mind. Take it or leave it.

You don't seem to like Islam, well then so be it.

However, once you say you are a Hindu then it will be expected of you to respect Hindu gods, if you claim to be a Sikh then you will be expected to respect Guru Granth Sahib and the gurus, if you claim to be a Christian then you must not contradict Bible. Finally if ANYONE CLAIMS TO BE A MUSLIM then he/she must not declare an open rebellion against Quran.

In Islam first thing is Eeman, declaration that one ACCEPTS, unquestionably accepts. Matters of practice come later, failure to adhere in practice may be pardoned, declaration of pride in explicitly forbidden things is illogical and unpardonable. For example, nobody forces JC to declare that he is a Muslim, but if does so then his taking pride in being a gay is an idiotic contradiciton, nonsensical rebellion and is unacceptable. Honesty demands that if he wishes to take pride in being a gay then he must not insist upon being a Muslim. If he insists on being a Muslim then he must accept that being a gay is an immense failure on his part, he must not show pride in such acts and pray for Allah's help.

As Muslims we believe and unquestionably belieive in the UNSEEN. Deen came to us, as Rasul of Allah taught us...........period. WE ACCEPT IT IN ITS ENTIRETY. IT IS MATTER OF BELIEF, we believe in it without question, we do not wish to apply any logic to it and we neither seek nor offer any logic or apology for it. You don't want to believe thats your choice. What Muslims do and what they don't is entirely a different matter.

On matters of marrying the persons you mentioned, you have your opinion, others have theirs. More than a BILLION people on this planet will not agree with your wisdom, hard luck.

Amicus

[tahir]

matters of marrying the persons you mentioned, you have your opinion, others have theirs. More than a BILLION people on this planet will not agree with your wisdom, hard luck.

But the remaining "minority" of 5 billion would more or less tend to agree. And fortunately for you, they dont interpret certain "verses" literally else they would become 50 billion within no time.....anyway, its still hard luck for me that I did not get an answer.

PS: I never said I dont like Islam and didnt show any indications towards the same.

[Alislam]

S: I never said I dont like Islam and didnt show any indications towards the same.

--- You just have to read your previous posts to see what you have said regarding your belief in Islam..

You are probably new to the message board and i would like to tell you that the questions you've raised regarding marriages are already discussed at length earlier.

Many people on this board reject Quran in its enntirety and do not believe it to be a word of Allah (SWT) and find faults with the Prophet (SAW) and still prefer to call themselves reformist bohras or muslims..

Why such hypocricy ??

For your kind information homo sexuality is not accepted by majority of people on this planet, irrespective of their religious affiliation.

[Amicus Mellitus]

<<<<< interpret certain "verses" literally>>>>

the BILLION ...interpreted literally

Still your claim of the REST being with you has no substance in it.

Good that you say you never said you do not like Islam but from your posts we do not see any indication of your love for Islam either. ( Why you put quotes on the word verses? you must have had a reason, was it love for Islam? )

Enlighten us HOW YOU INTERPRET this verse? Tell us what will be literal interpretation and what will be non-literal interpretation....go ahead.....

"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful. (The Noble Quran, 4:16)"

Amicus

[tahir]

how and who will decide "lewdness"?....i just posted about "oppression" in the other thread. How would you interpret oppression from Quran?

BTW, I made it clear before that I dont follow any organised religion. And does absence of "love" imply "hate"?

[anajmi]

tahir,

let me answer your moronic "petty concerns"

1 Incestous relationships (first cousins). First cousins is incestous according to whose definition? The quran makes it clear whom you can marry and whom you cannot.

2 I am sure here you are referring to the marriage of the prophet (saw) with hazrat Aisha. Again, you are a big moron. The reason Allah ordered this marriage was so that dwellers of hell fire can be separated from those of heaven. Let me rephrase so that your petty brain can understand. How many paedophiles do you know that have requested the daughters hand in marriage from their father? How many paedophile do you know that did not consummate the marriage for 3 or 5 years after the marriage? (as a previous discussion on this board proved, 12 years in some countries is a legal age for marriage). How many victims of paedophiles do you know that remained a loyal wife till the husbands death? How many victims do you know that dictated the traditions of the husbands and contributed towards the husbands teachings more than anyone else?

As I said the raising of this one question separates out a lot of filth from the muslim ummah.

[anajmi]

And may be instead of referring to people as "brother" or "sister" it would be more appropriate, according to "assholes", to refer to them as "dick" and "pussy".

[tahir]

this is the "minority insecurity complex" I talked about sometime back...its obvious that no one wants to change the light bulb

[tahir]

And may be instead of referring to people as "brother" or "sister" it would be more appropriate, according to "assholes", to refer to them as "dick" and "pussy".

wont be much off the mark...cuz dick and pussy is what the "followers" look for into their supposed brothers and sisters after attaining the mature age of "12".

[Amicus Mellitus]

Tahir:

Quote
--------------------------------------
I made it clear before that I dont follow any organised religion. And does absence of "love" imply "hate"
--------------------------------------

So you are NOT a Muslim and you follow "no organised religion"

Obviously you know nothing about Islam, you can not ditinguish between Tahir and Fasiq. Tomorrow you might tell us benefits of eating pork or drinking urine or marrying your own mother. No need to go any further with you.

[tahir]

Tomorrow you might tell us benefits of eating pork or drinking urine or marrying your own mother

How different would that be from marrying one's own sister or screwing a kid?...not refering to history but the ongoing practice of old arab sheikhs coming to India in search of virgins and picking girls from hyderabad for marriage as soon as the latter start mensturating....you may want to read the famous "Amina Fatima case" of 1992 when a 70 year old sheikh married (bought) the 11 year old Amina and was caught in the flight when Amina was weeping while sitting besides his wrinkled bridegroom.

Now somene will try to tell me that since the sheikh did this with the permission of Amina's father, a poor rikshaw driver, it is absolutely ok.

Wealthy Arab pensioners still come to Hyderabad looking for pubescent brides to satisfy their paedophiliac lust, but these cases come to light only in the rare instance of a girl complaining to the police. In some cases, these men marry an underage girl, have sex with her in a hotel for a week, divorce her with a quick talaq, dump her back at her parents and fly home.
Amicus I am not criticising Islam for all this but the way the followers "interpret" it according to their convenience. The problem lies in "blind following".

Such instances are conveniently dispelled by muslim debators by saying "these are not true muslims". If I go on with the list of follies, "atleast" 99% of the followers will be discarded by scholars as "not true muslims" for some "reason" or other which they find hard to defend.